Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Matafuego said:
Things like Mnemonic Enhancer, which affect how spells are prepared (given that sorcerers don't prepare spells).
-Hyp.
Wands? - Anyone use?
- Thread starter DarkCrisis
- Start date
Things like Mnemonic Enhancer, which affect how spells are prepared (given that sorcerers don't prepare spells).
-Hyp.
Thanee
First Post
Well, with a wand it would probably work, but you would have to denote the spell level, which normally isn't the case. Also here is an actual difference, unlike what I meant, when the spell level is basically irrelevant to the effect.Hypersmurf said:
A wizard could also make the same item with the use of Heighten Spell.
If you have a wand of cure moderate wounds, for example, what tells you what the spell level is? 2nd or 3rd? The cost is always based on 2nd level, since this is the "standard level at which the spell is cast", but it doesn't have to be. And the effect of a 2nd or 3rd level spell is exactly equal.
It probably makes sense to base the cost on the lowest spell level at which a particular spell occurs in general. The big question is, can a wizard make a wand of hold monster then? The wand can be made, generally, but do you need a bard for it?
Bye
Thanee
Last edited:
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Yes, you do. Only a bard can cast the spell at 4th-level.
Last edited:
Thanee
First Post
To refine somewhat, what I think... (EDIT: See post below also 
)
I think the most important factor to derive the cost of a magic item is the effect of the item. While the spell level is often (not always) used as a guideline in magic item creation, the final cost is based purely on the effect. There are several examples, where the final cost is lower or higher than what the formula would suggest. Also the cost for a magic item should be the same, regardless of who makes the item, since it is based on the effect and not the creator.
The information at which spell level an item is created is not part of the item's description, therefore it should be assumed, that it is always the lowest possible. A wand of hold person uses 2nd spell level, a wand of continual flame uses 2nd spell level. Anything else is a different item, i.e. wand of hold person (heightened to 3rd spell level).
The prerequisites to create a magic item does not really include the spell level. A wizard, being able to cast hold monster is able to make a wand of hold monster, since it is generally possible to make such an item, since the spell exists as a 4th level spell, a wand of hold monster also exists.
Therefore, I think that for magic item creation a spellcaster should be able to create an item based on the lowest spell level at which a spell is available to any class (prestige classes can be happily ignored here, I guess
). Also a spellcaster should be able to make the item based on the spell level at which his or her class has the spell in question available (if possible, for example in case of the wand it would not be possible), this is similar to using a heightened spell then. Even without knowing the Heighten Spell feat, a wizard could make a wand of hold person (heightened to 3rd spell level) then, but the wizard could also make a wand of hold person, since he or she has the prerequisites for it (at 5th class level or higher, caster level would be 3rd then, of course).
To summarize, a spellcaster should be able to create an item based on the spell's actual spell level for his or her class and the lowest spell level for any class.
Bye
Thanee
)I think the most important factor to derive the cost of a magic item is the effect of the item. While the spell level is often (not always) used as a guideline in magic item creation, the final cost is based purely on the effect. There are several examples, where the final cost is lower or higher than what the formula would suggest. Also the cost for a magic item should be the same, regardless of who makes the item, since it is based on the effect and not the creator.
The information at which spell level an item is created is not part of the item's description, therefore it should be assumed, that it is always the lowest possible. A wand of hold person uses 2nd spell level, a wand of continual flame uses 2nd spell level. Anything else is a different item, i.e. wand of hold person (heightened to 3rd spell level).
The prerequisites to create a magic item does not really include the spell level. A wizard, being able to cast hold monster is able to make a wand of hold monster, since it is generally possible to make such an item, since the spell exists as a 4th level spell, a wand of hold monster also exists.
Therefore, I think that for magic item creation a spellcaster should be able to create an item based on the lowest spell level at which a spell is available to any class (prestige classes can be happily ignored here, I guess
). Also a spellcaster should be able to make the item based on the spell level at which his or her class has the spell in question available (if possible, for example in case of the wand it would not be possible), this is similar to using a heightened spell then. Even without knowing the Heighten Spell feat, a wizard could make a wand of hold person (heightened to 3rd spell level) then, but the wizard could also make a wand of hold person, since he or she has the prerequisites for it (at 5th class level or higher, caster level would be 3rd then, of course).To summarize, a spellcaster should be able to create an item based on the spell's actual spell level for his or her class and the lowest spell level for any class.
Bye
Thanee
Last edited:
Thanee
First Post
EDIT: Hmm... just looked at the magic item creation section once more, and the table for wand costs does list different costs for different classes (based on the minimum caster level at which a spell level is available). Also the feat says, that you can create a wand with any spell of 4th level or lower, that you know. That would certainly point in this direction.Lord Pendragon said:
Maybe this is specific to wands (or rather spell completion and spell trigger items), tho. With wondrous items (which is what I was thinking about more, really, when writing the above (tho, I thought all magic item creation would work that way
)), for example, the cost to create an item is simply based on the item's cost, which is not dependant on the spell level at which the creator knows the spell.So here's another, similar question. Say, there is this wondrous item, which let's you cast hold monster at will, caster level 7th, market price 7x4x1,800gp. Can a wizard create this item?
Bye
Thanee
Last edited:
Cost (market price that is) to create a wand = Caster Level X Spell Level X 750 gp.
Wands can be made at various caster levels althought the default is the minimum level necessary to cast the spell. For example a wand of magic missiles can be made at CL 1-20. At 1st level (the default for this wand) it can cast 1 magic missile, at 3rd - 2, etc.
Unlike 2nd ed (which didn't have really good rules but it was necessary) there are no allowances (in the core rules) for cooperative magic item creation. Basically as written the creater has to meet the requirements himself. I didn't say I think this is smart, only that the rules don't cover cooperative magic item creation. One of the reasons for not allowing cooperative magic item creation is the experience point cost. Who pays it if more than one person is involved in the creating? Again no core rules for having someone other than the creator pay the exp cost (also something I wish they {WotC} had addressed).
Wands can be made at various caster levels althought the default is the minimum level necessary to cast the spell. For example a wand of magic missiles can be made at CL 1-20. At 1st level (the default for this wand) it can cast 1 magic missile, at 3rd - 2, etc.
Unlike 2nd ed (which didn't have really good rules but it was necessary) there are no allowances (in the core rules) for cooperative magic item creation. Basically as written the creater has to meet the requirements himself. I didn't say I think this is smart, only that the rules don't cover cooperative magic item creation. One of the reasons for not allowing cooperative magic item creation is the experience point cost. Who pays it if more than one person is involved in the creating? Again no core rules for having someone other than the creator pay the exp cost (also something I wish they {WotC} had addressed).
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
irdeggman said:
Yeah, it's a shame they didn't put a section in the DMG like:
Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.
Typically, a list of prerequisites includes one feat and one or more spells (or some other requirement in addition to the feat). When two spells at the end of a list are separated by “or,” one of those spells is required in addition to every other spell mentioned prior to the last two.
-Hyp.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Well, I think this pretty much completes the discussion on those items in the DMG such as the Wand of Confusion. Sometimes, one creator alone isn't going to be enough.Hypersmurf said:
Similar Threads
