War Pick; ?d8

[FireLance]

I think the very fact that the number under the Proficiency column is written as a numeral rather than a word (2 rather than Two), actually says a lot.

In D&D, pretty much everything that is used directly in mathematical calculation is listed as a numeral, while anything conceptual (like Two-Handed weapons and proficiency levels) is referenced with full words. This is a useful distinction that helps keep things clear when reading tables and such.

Because of this, I think there is a very high chance that this number is referring to a real combat modifier, such as a proficiency bonus to attack rolls, and a much lower chance of it being a categorization system for proficiency.

Using a similar argument, anything that grants a bonus tends to have a "+" in front of it, e.g. +5 BAB, +2 Will defence, etc.

Using a combination of both arguments, the number of damage dice theory seems the most likely.

EDIT: The tiered Martial Arts feats in SWSE are called Martial Arts I, Martial Arts II and Martial Arts III, so if the same convention is followed, tiered proficiency feats should be in Roman numerals, not numbers.

 

[vagabundo]

My guesses on this statblock:

Prof (Proficient); characters will get a plus to bab if they are proficient in the pick category.

Property, versatile; I believe this will give the weapon extra uses, possibly outside of combat, like door bashing.

I am liking that they are now differentiating weapons more. Character will have a greater range of tools, each suiting their personal fighting style.

 

[Gort]

I'm leaning toward the idea that the "proficiency: 2" thing means a bonus to those proficient with the weapon. Remember the bit in Races and Classes where they mentioned that mauls would be high-damage but inaccurate, swords would be accurate but lower-damage and axes would lie between the two? A "proficiency bonus" of 1 for the maul, 3 for the sword, and 2 for the axe would represent this well.

Secondly, having proficiency as a bonus rather than a penalty reflects the overall design ethos of 4e as we know it so far. They're very much more in favour of bonuses than penalties - look at what we know of the races, for instance. Elves lost their stat penalty and gained a new stat bonus.

 

[Steely Dan]

Maybe certain weapons require certain proficiency, like simple weapons require Prof. 1 and other weapons require Prof. 2 or even 3.

 

[ogre]

I'm leaning toward the idea that the "proficiency: 2" thing means a bonus to those proficient with the weapon. Remember the bit in Races and Classes where they mentioned that mauls would be high-damage but inaccurate, swords would be accurate but lower-damage and axes would lie between the two? A "proficiency bonus" of 1 for the maul, 3 for the sword, and 2 for the axe would represent this well.

Secondly, having proficiency as a bonus rather than a penalty reflects the overall design ethos of 4e as we know it so far. They're very much more in favour of bonuses than penalties - look at what we know of the races, for instance. Elves lost their stat penalty and gained a new stat bonus.

Gort, I think you're right. And gladly so!

 

[Ruvion]

SNIP. They're very much more in favour of bonuses than penalties - look at what we know of the races, for instance. Elves lost their stat penalty and gained a new stat bonus.

I thought most, if not all, PC races were getting bonuses without penalties to their ability scores.

 

[Morrus]

A "proficiency bonus" of 1 for the maul, 3 for the sword, and 2 for the axe would represent this well.

Possibly. I generally feel in 3.5 that bonuses that small don't tend to make much of a noticeable difference. Admittedly, I'm running a high level game right now, and people tend to roll in the 40-50 range.

 

[Morrus]

I like the new look of the weapon presentation, and i think the prof(iciency) could be as simple as the new classifications taking the place of simple, martial and exotic (and rouge/monk/druid )

lvl 1: things a person that spent their life living in a box could use to some degree: clubs, sticks, flailing hand slaps

level 2: something a peasent should be able to use well. picks, sickles, daggers, maces etc

level 3: warrior type weapons; swords, battle axes

level 4: the weird exotic things; spiked chains, bladed pinwheels

thus rather than muck around with subjective words like "simple" and "martial" or a long list of what this character can use that leaves out some pretty obvious choices (i'm looking at you monk) they boil it down to numbers.


Category seems to me to be most importat to warriors, since WoTC claim now their powers are somewhat weapon specific, thus the category tell the warrior what category of powers (sword,axe,pick,spear) this thing falls under. so his "Pick your nose" power that functions with any pick category weapon works with warpicks, minning picks, and possibly toothpicks (although those are more likely in the javelin or spear category)

theories that prof. 2 -> -2 to attacks if not proficient or proficient users get 2d8 are not in anyway bad ideas, but fly in the face of the simplicity that the designers are TRYING (arguments of course may be made against this) to make part of the framework. I think the simple explanations will prevail in the end.

one thing that i find odd is that no "Light, one handed, two handed" claricfication is mentioned, though that might be listed elsewhere, or simply left out at this point.

I find myself liking this a lot.

 

[glass]

They keep saying they've fixed the math... maybe hit points and weapon damage now scale at similar rates, with damage die type being determined by weapon and number being determined by level? Strikes me as unlikely, but it would be odd if they made all the check bonuses and target numbers scale, but kept hit points outpacing damage output.

Makes sense to me, except if it is half-level as pretty much everything seems to be then you would be rolling 15 dice at 30th level. Maybe they are going after the Exalted crowd!

OTOH, maybe difference classes get different 'damage dice' progressions, now that they are not getting different babs.


glass.

 

[Gort]

Possibly. I generally feel in 3.5 that bonuses that small don't tend to make much of a noticeable difference. Admittedly, I'm running a high level game right now, and people tend to roll in the 40-50 range.

Well, with the "new maths" they're going for, where everyone's attack and AC scale at the same rate (0.5 per level base attack and base defense) by the time anyone's rolling a 45 attack we should be looking at ACs in the 55 range. So a +3 proficiency bonus to your attack rolls will still be a 15% chance to hit.

Everything unravels at high levels anyway, I find. I'm just hoping they fix that.

I thought most, if not all, PC races were getting bonuses without penalties to their ability scores.

Yeah, I heard that too. It makes me worry about halflings - they really shouldn't be anywhere near as strong as a human. They need a serious strength penalty, but bonuses in other areas to balance that.