Waraxe?!

Without Dwarven Weapon Training, as it is, Dwarves do not make optimal fighters, barbarians, runepriests, warlords... basically... all the fighting classes that have been traditionally identified with the Dwarves.

Now, a variant world could work where Dwarves are typically identified as priests and communers with the infernal or dead stars, and that might be cool, but that would stray a bit too far from the standard idea of what a dwarf IS.

Dwarven Weapon Training (and Eladrin Soldier) are necessary for those classes. It's different that GGWP because Goliaths are a strength based class, so superior weapons AND weapon bonuses would not be appropriate for them.


Yeah. This what I was going to say.
 

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context: in the PHB dwarven weapon training basically provides a +2 to damage and axe and hammer proficiencies, but the later are really for clerics or others limited to simple weapons.

Hammer Rhythm.

The most damaging martial weapon in the game before AV was a hammer.
Hammers give bonuses on fighter abilities just as often as axes, and it's generally of the 'damage moar' variety.

Hammers are not just for clerics no more.

Draco: are they really that "sub optimal", at least for fighters? Their boosts to con, wis, race abilities...all seem to compensate.

In terms of damage, yes, absolutely sub-optimal. The racial abilities ARE good, do not mistake me. But strength based classes end fights quicker which is also an effective form of damage-prevention; killing a foe effectively heals you for all the damage it would have done if you hadn't.

Not to mention, the dwarven abilities in those regards are valuable if you're a fighter, but have less upside for a Barbarian or a Warlord.

Not to mention, every class in the game predicates itself on the ability to actually hit something. Dwarves are at a disadvantage, so superior+2 damage for one feat makes them... almost at the level of a Strength-based fighter.

Fact is, without the additional proficiencies from AV, all DWT is is a heroic-level +1 damage that gets obsoleted at paragon. That's not that great at all across 30 levels. With the proficiencies, it's a feat you take and enjoy and saves you a feat for epic level, while not putting you above the curve.

For something to be broken, it must put you -above- the curve, not just a slight bit beneath it, and DWT only puts you slightly beneath the curve.
 


On Dwarves As Fighters, though I know it's off-topic, and probably discussed in more depth elsewhere:

The vast majority of difficult encounters will force a character to use Second Wind. Dwarves can do it and still get off an attack, though probably an at-will. Worse for non-Dwarves, sometimes the need to forego an attack convinces them to to skip the Second Wind instead, and they end up dropping and therefore making Death Saves instead of attacks.

In many encounters, a character who is knocked prone or pushed/pulled/slid away from the optimal position cannot get off an attack due to the lack of actions, e.g. prone and one square away from the desired/only enemy. Dwarves are substantially less likely to suffer this fate.

In the Action Economy of 4e, greater control over actions and positioning has a significant positive affect on attacks and therefore on damage. It's harder to deprive a Dwarf of actions or screw up his/her positioning.

Now: I'd still like to know why the OP believes it's important to talk about Waraxes two years after the PHB was released.
 

Hammer Rhythm.

The most damaging martial weapon in the game before AV was a hammer.
Hammers give bonuses on fighter abilities just as often as axes, and it's generally of the 'damage moar' variety.

Hammers are not just for clerics no more.

Yes...though my point was more on the benefit of the extra proficiencies pre AV...



Not to mention, every class in the game predicates itself on the ability to actually hit something. Dwarves are at a disadvantage, so superior+2 damage for one feat makes them... almost at the level of a Strength-based fighter.

But then wouldn't bastard sword (or some sort of acurate axe) be better? Or just giving the charecter a +1 battle axe?
 

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