D&D 5E Warlock, Hex, and Short Rests: The Bag of Rats Problem

[Undrhil]

Wait, what?

Players: Okay DM, we sit around doing nothing much for an hour.

DM: No you don't. You decide to strenuously chop logs or something instead.

Players: ....????

WTF?

More like

Players: we stop to rest for an hour.

DM: ok, about 20 minutes into your rest, you hear screams as a small gang of goblind assaults you. Roll initiative.

 

[Caliban]

More like

Players: we stop to rest for an hour.

DM: ok, about 20 minutes into your rest, you hear screams as a small gang of goblind assaults you. Roll initiative.

I don't think anyone is disputing that that is within the purview of the DM.

But I don't think that is what Ovinomancer and adhoc are referring to. They seem to think the DM can just say "Nope. You are physically incapable of resting right now. Because reasons."

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Actually, I suspect you were just trying to save face by switching from an incorrect argument (It is RAW that concentrating on a spell is no more strenuous than "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds") to an irrelevant and non-contentious argument (It is RAW that "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds" does not break a spellcaster's concentration).

I mean, I'll admit that it is possible that you were referring to the second argument the whole time, but it strains credulity why someone would clog up an already massive thread with something so irrelevant and non-contentious. That's why I'm not willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

But anyways, this was a fun diversion. Let's get back on track, though.

No, I was always talking about the discussion in full, because it has always included the contention that you can't concentrate through a short rest. Nice try, though.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I don't think anyone is disputing that that is within the purview of the DM.

But I don't think that is what Ovinomancer and adhoc are referring to. They seem to think the DM can just say "Nope. You are physically incapable of resting right now. Because reasons."

Nope, but it's well within the DMs purview to say you can't rest in the exploding volcano, or other situation. Rests occur at the DM'S discretion first, then at the players.

 

[Undrhil]

"Some players will find more enjoyment in spoiling a game than in playing it, and this ruins the fun for the rest of the participants, so it must be prevented. ... Strong steps short of expulsion can be an extra random monster die, obviously rolled, the attack of an ethereal mummy (which always strikes by surprise, naturally), points of damage from "blue bolts from the heavens" striking the offender's head, or the permanent loss of a point of charisma (appropriately) from the character belonging to the offender."

Players: Okay, once we wake up from our long rest, we take a short rest so that the Warlock can sacrifice Skeeter from his Bag o' Rats.

DM: An ethereal mummy materialized and attacks you!!!!!

Players: ..... gramps, have you been channeling Gygax again? We aren't playing Tomb of Horrors anymore ....

DM: YOU ARE SMITED BY A BLUE BOLT FROM THE HEAVENS!

Players: .... c'mon, now. It's going to be okay. No more save or dies.

DM: WHIPPERSNAPPERS CAN'T EVEN ORDER YOUR ABILITIES RIGHT! It's Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity, Constitution, Charisma. That's right, you LOSE A POINT OF CHARISMA, for KILLING SKEETER!

Players: *sigh*

First, where is that quoted text from?

Second, I always see people post these hypothetical "The players could do this or that" scenarios but I have never seen it as "The players *did* this or that". I've never actually seen a (modern) thread of players spoiling the game they are in. Sure, I've seen them from 1e, 2e, 3e, but never anything from 4e or 5e, short of "My players did this thing that was really neat but it broke the game and we talked about it afterwards and they're cool with not doing that thing again."

Third, why does it seem like all posts from people who are DMs are showing the players being douches and the DM being an even bigger douche?

 

[Caliban]

Nope, but it's well within the DMs purview to say you can't rest in the exploding volcano, or other situation. Rests occur at the DM'S discretion first, then at the players.

Oh, sorry. For some reason I thought you were being unreasonable. Now that you've brought up the exploding volcano scenario, I can see how mistaken I was.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So that said I'm going to switch gears here a little bit and ask something mostly out of curiosity: has anyone actually ever encountered this, or something like it, in their own games? Every time something like this comes up it almost feels like an urban legend of D&D... you know, something you've never seen personally but you've read about it on the Internet or your friends-brothers-cousin once knew a guy who said it happened in a game he didn't actually play in but watched at someone else's house. Basically, setting the theoretical rulings aside, have any of you run into this and what were the specifics of it? Looking for stories essentially.

We've been using this, minus the bag of rats, for a while. Most of the time we've played 5e. I think we first encountered the "concentrate through short rests" part" with a wizard casting some concentration spell at the start of the day, and it never occurred to any of us that this might not be raw and rai until someone ITT suggested otherwise.

The other aspect, of gaining back a spell slot while maintaining the spell that said slot was used to cast was encountered also with a wizard, while taking a long rest. Bc the wizard was an elf, and this didn't sleep, it seemed obvious that they could maintain Concentration while meditating through a long rest. Since the rules clearly state what happens when you rest, and no specific rule contradicts the general rule about rests, the RAW is pretty clear: There would have to be a specific rule stopping you from regaining the spell slot under that specific circumstance, otherwise the general rule applies, and you gain back your spell slots.
So yeah, that wizard more than once cast a 24 hour duration spell right before a long rest, and got both the benefit of the spell and the slot for the whole next day.
That campaign fizzled due to IRL drama and someone moving, and now we have a warlock, and yeah, it works the same for the warlock.

 

[Caliban]

First, where is that quoted text from?

Pretty sure it's a Gary Gygax quote. Probably either from the 1st edition DMG or a supplement.

 

[lowkey13]

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