D&D 5E Warlock, Hex, and Short Rests: The Bag of Rats Problem

[dco]

But there is nothing in rules at indicate you cant get the benefits of a short rest while concentrating.

And the guys that wrote the rules have (repeatedly) stated that the intent is that you can short rest and maintain concentration on a spell.

There's nothing for you, I'm reading a lot of quotes about the strenous part and 24h duration but curiously this part is always omitted:
"They need rest-time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure."
There's where I see it, it's also RAW but it depends on how you interpret it, for me you can not continue concentrating on old spells if you want to refresh your mind and spirit. Why I took that interpretation? Because it resembles reality, the same way I consider people need to sleep and eat when RAW doesn't say they need to do it, or what is the scope of normal senses, or if you are unconscious while sleeping, etc. I think people that only resorts to things explicitly written have a can of worms in their hands.

The spell duration is something completely unrelated, "the following factors can break concentration" is a better reasoning, but by RAW a player can end concentration at any time:
"You can end concentration at any time (no action required)."
We are not saying a short rest breaks your concentration, we are saying you need to end the concentration if you want to take the benefits of the rest, which is very different and also supported by RAW.

At the end all depends on what you think you need to take a short or long rest, completely open for different interpretations, I find all the rest of explanations worthless. If the guy who designed the game has been asked several times he should use the errata.

I mean if your Warlock is casting a spell then immediately short resting that a totally different problem. You're not policing the adventuring day and/or your Warlock player is gaming the system.

Time limit your quests, and this problem goes away. Or use 'random' monsters for players who try and game the rest system.

I don't understand, if the warlock cast the spell and then rests...what is new or what is the problem?
He is only using a resource.

 

[Barolo]

On a tangent, can you recover a slot during a rest (any suitable to recover that slot) that was spent on a spell with very long duration but that does not require concentration (for example, sequester, extended see invisibility by a multiclass sorcerer, etc)? If you can, should the spell also terminate? Again, if yes, what exactly interrupted the spell effect?

Now, if you cannot recover, what exactly is preventing you from recovering?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Caliban]

I don't understand, if the warlock cast the spell and then rests...what is new or what is the problem?
He is only using a resource.

Flamey claims to run his game like a dictatorship, with harsh penalties for anyone who offends his sense of the 'proper' way to play D&D. He occasionally graces us with his wisdom and advice on how to run our games.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

On a tangent, can you recover a slot during a rest (any suitable to recover that slot) that was spent on a spell with very long duration but that does not require concentration (for example, sequester, extended see invisibility by a multiclass sorcerer, etc)? If you can, should the spell also terminate? Again, if yes, what exactly interrupted the spell effect?

Now, if you cannot recover, what exactly is preventing you from recovering?

As far as I'm aware, the only instance where it is spelled (Heh) out that you cannot recover a spell slot spent on an on-going effect is in the Artificer Wizard tradition. Spell slots spent to create potions, and arcane recovery spent to create scrolls cannot be recovered until after the potion or scroll is used or loses usability.
The duration of the potions and scrolls are multiple days, so a measure like this is pretty vital to prevent stockpiling several days resources.

I'm not aware of other instances where it is explicitly stated that a spell slot cannot be recovered when it usually could.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Sacrosanct]

You're wasting your time. He's decided he's the final arbiter of what is and is not RAW. No one else gets a say in the matter.

Flamey claims to run his game like a dictatorship, with harsh penalties for anyone who offends his sense of the 'proper' way to play D&D. He occasionally graces us with his wisdom and advice on how to run our games.

Seriously dude?

 

[Barolo]

As far as I'm aware, the only instance where it is spelled (Heh) out that you cannot recover a spell slot spent on an on-going effect is in the Artificer Wizard tradition. Spell slots spent to create potions, and arcane recovery spent to create scrolls cannot be recovered until after the potion or scroll is used or loses usability.
The duration of the potions and scrolls are multiple days, so a measure like this is pretty vital to prevent stockpiling several days resources.

I'm not aware of other instances where it is explicitly stated that a spell slot cannot be recovered when it usually could.

Thanks for the insight. Anyway, my objective with the question is more an exercise in logic, how do people handle other situations that might be impacted by some proposed rulings regarding the main topic.

 

[Sacrosanct]

A short rest definitely does not break concentration, RAW, because RAW tells us exactly what can break concentration (the purpose of that section is to tell us exactly what breaks it) and anything not on that list therefore can not.

.

Again, that's not what RAW means. the W means "Written", and it's not written anywhere that talks about rests breaking concentration. And not only do you have that first sentence you originally omitted, the last point comes right out and tells you it's DM fiat. If you want to play that way, knock yourself out. No one is saying that's wrong. However, even if you set aside how the language is used in the books, I am so certain that Mearls and Crawford did mean for that list to be a complete list of everything that can break concentration, that I'll give you my still sealed in original shrinkwrap boxed set of Holmes Basic if you can get a tweet or email from either of them stating that the points on that list are the only things that can break concentration.

 

[MrHotter]

On a tangent, can you recover a slot during a rest (any suitable to recover that slot) that was spent on a spell with very long duration but that does not require concentration (for example, sequester, extended see invisibility by a multiclass sorcerer, etc)? If you can, should the spell also terminate? Again, if yes, what exactly interrupted the spell effect?

Now, if you cannot recover, what exactly is preventing you from recovering?

I don't think any non-concentration spells that have a longer duration are problematic. RAW or RAI should allow them even at a table that thinks a spell slot can not be recovered for a spell that is being held in concentration.

Now that you bring up the Sorceror's extended spell, that does show how recovering spell slots on a short rest could cause issue with a multiclass sorc/warlock who may want to cast a extended summoning spell with a one hour duration (extended to two hours) and then short rest every other hour to keep it going while not using a spell slot.

I think 5E did a good job of not promoting the 5 minute work day with limiting long rests and having concentration spells. As a DM, I would prefer to try to avoid issues where the best options involve trying to exploit the rules.