D&D 5E Warlock Mechanics - The best representation of modern fantasy archetypes in Dnd

[DND_Reborn]

Warlock is one of the least played classes IME. While the invocations are attractive, so I've seen dipping in for a couple levels, otherwise it utterly lacks appeal.

Why would I want just a handful of spell slots when I can have a dozen? Short rests are not automatic, and most groups limit them to 2 per long rest. Mystic Arcanum's are stuck, once chosen. Invocations are either great (and the same ones get picked constantly...) or very meh and hardly ever (IF ever) get selected!

It is a decent class as far as power-level is concerned, but more useful for multiclassing dips than as a class on its own IMO.

 

[J.Quondam]

Keep in mind that the point made in the OP is that the warlock chassis is a pretty good one for modeling a specific sort of character, namely modern "magical character" archetypes with thematically-focused powers, like those commonly found in supers, anime, and so forth.
From that perspective, the narrowness of spell selection and at-will powers is the attraction.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think the mechanical chassis for Warlock is incredibly basic, since the correct answer in most situations is "cast eldritch blast." Which effectively makes them more like a martial class than a casting class. And the game needs simple classes, so they are probably fine. If kind of boring, in terms of game play.

Of course, in terms of lore and story, they are great.

The mechanical chassis of the Warlock is deliberately lacking in intermediate stuff. They can generally match other casters in terms of gamechanging abilities and the big stuff - but they don't have to rifle through spells and break out e.g. Scorching Ray. You say it's basic, I say it's streamlined with almost all the highs and few of the lows. (And some highs no one else can match; Disguise Self At Will >> disguise self taking a spell slot.)

Also Warlocks are a whole lot less limited by their spells known limit than sorcerers. Warlocks only ever have to cover a single level of spells with their spells known. while sorcerers need to keep low level spells known or waste their low level slots. No seventh level caster often wanted to cast Scorching Ray or Shatter at second level but it's better than casting a (non-Eldritch Blast) cantrip. It's this spell clog and makework that the warlock doesn't have to deal with.

And I agree with @Tales and Chronicles that not everyone wants to juggle spells. The One D&D attempt to homogenise the casters by making them all spells prepared casters is a bad thing not because spells prepared are inherently bad but because the big advantage of a class system is avoiding homogenisation.

 

[Aldarc]

Warlock is one of the least played classes IME. While the invocations are attractive, so I've seen dipping in for a couple levels, otherwise it utterly lacks appeal.

Why would I want just a handful of spell slots when I can have a dozen? Short rests are not automatic, and most groups limit them to 2 per long rest. Mystic Arcanum's are stuck, once chosen. Invocations are either great (and the same ones get picked constantly...) or very meh and hardly ever (IF ever) get selected!

It is a decent class as far as power-level is concerned, but more useful for multiclassing dips than as a class on its own IMO.

Warlocks are probably the most played class in my games, whether I'm sitting at the table as a GM or as a player. Maybe warlocks would be played more if you didn't just make them into a hollowed-out cleric subclass.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Warlocks are probably the most played class in my games, whether I'm sitting at the table as a GM or as a player. Maybe warlocks would be played more if you didn't just make them into a hollowed-out cleric subclass.

Good for you.

That was BEFORE I did that.

Frankly, I would rather just remove both Warlocks and Sorcerers from the game, but they work well as the subclasses of Clerics and Wizards, so that is a happy compromise.

 

[Aldarc]

Good for you.

That was BEFORE I did that.

Frankly, I would rather just remove both Warlocks and Sorcerers from the game, but they work well as the subclasses of Clerics and Wizards, so that is a happy compromise.

Hence why I view your earlier appraisal of warlocks with great suspicion.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Hence why I view your earlier appraisal of warlocks with great suspicion.

What? I can't have my personal opinion about this and not relate my experiences?

I mean, I actually included IME and IMO in that post, you realize? There shouldn't be any "great suspicion", I was perfectly clear.

Warlock is one of the least played classes IME.

but more useful for multiclassing dips than as a class on its own IMO.

And to assume I was somehow being dishonest or disingenuous is a tad ungracious.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Warlocks are probably the most played class in my games, whether I'm sitting at the table as a GM or as a player. Maybe warlocks would be played more if you didn't just make them into a hollowed-out cleric subclass.

We have actual data on this that doesn't rely on the results of a single table; D&D Beyond shares data on their development streams. And as of mid 2020 Warlocks were the third most popular single classed characters in the game (behind only fighters and clerics). If we are including multiclasses then warlocks move from third to the single most popular class in the game, but that might be because a single level dip into Hexblade is broken. There are outlier tables where warlocks are unpopular; D&D is not homogenous. But by the data warlock is more popular than any other spellcasting class even without multiclassing.

 

[Aldarc]

I wonder what WotC thinks about the Warlock being more popular than the Wizard.

 

[DND_Reborn]

We have actual data on this that doesn't rely on the results of a single table; D&D Beyond shares data on their development streams. And as of mid 2020 Warlocks were the third most popular single classed characters in the game (behind only fighters and clerics). If we are including multiclasses then warlocks move from third to the single most popular class in the game, but that might be because a single level dip into Hexblade is broken. There are outlier tables where warlocks are unpopular; D&D is not homogenous. But by the data warlock is more popular than any other spellcasting class even without multiclassing.

View attachment 268063

For myself, I never denied it might be popular with other groups, just not IME. They get played, but are low on the totem pole.

As for the data, it is two years old, and without seeing any decimals, we have no idea of just how much Warlock is ahead of Barbarian, Cleric, or Wizard. They could be 8.5, 8.4, 8.4, and 8.4 but are shown that way due to rounding.

I have no idea of 4E had Warlocks or not since I never played it, but IME (again) experienced players have tried it due to it being a "newer" class, but after a short time have multiclassed out of it. Like I said, it is popular for multiclassing, but not so much (IME) as a solo class.

Others like it due to the short rest recharge, but we've seen from Tasha's that many things are moving away from short rest recharge...

YMMV (anyone's), of course.