D&D (2024) Warlock spell poll.

[Yaarel]

I suspect switching to a halfcaster schedule is a nerf.

Converting the Warlock chassis into a short-rest spell point system works well for even the highest slot spells too. This spell point system is great for Psion, as well as the Warlock. But it is also excellent for Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, Bard, and Cleric. When these fullcasters switch to a short-rest refresh, it looks like the Warlock spell points.

In other words, the 2014 Warlock actually is a fullcaster, and to represent it as if a halfcaster is a nerf.

 

[Lycurgon]

D) None of the above.

Full caster makes they are a lot like wizards and would need to lose class abilities, probably Invocations, to be balanced. It also makes them less different, less interesting, they become like a wizard varient rather than a unique class and play experience they currently are.

Being a half caster makes the them get spells levels too late, it is a massive drop in power. I don't see any other class Abilities added that balancing out downpowering them so much. And making Mystic Arcanum require Invocation slots is also a drop in power.

Dropping spells all together and just having Invocations could work if you got a LOT of Invocations and many of them are "cast x spell" or do pretty much the same thing as a spell. But replacing spellcasting with a more complicated way of doing basically the same thing is not a good solution.

I would be happy with a fullcaster progression for level 1-5 spells and getting Mystic Arcanum for free, or possibly adding enough extra Invocations to cover getting 6-9 levels spells without reducing the number left over afterwards. Currently there are no Invocations equal to the highest level of spells so choosing anything else would be sub optimal unless they provide more powerful Invocations.

Personally I had no issue with the short rest spell recovery we have now but I know they are moving to long rest abilities. Currently Warlocks are one of my favourite classes, but the playtest version isn't worth playing in my eyes.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

I do think Hex master lacks some pizzazz for a end cap feature.

"lacks some pizzazz", that's an interesting way to describe a trap option. Doing up to 1d6 extra damage per turn at lvl 18 is never a worthwhile use of your Concentration.

 

[Lycurgon]

"lacks some pizzazz", that's an interesting way to describe a trap option. Doing up to 1d6 extra damage per turn at lvl 18 is never a worthwhile use of your Concentration.

Yeah, even with the current version, dealing 1d6 extra damage 4x a turn is rarely worth your Concentration.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I do think Hex master lacks some pizzazz for a end cap feature. However, as van already be seen from existing Invocations, turning a Level 1 Dpell into a cantrip is at the same power budget Level as a Mystic Arcanum Spell Slot.

As can be seen from existing invocations turning a level 1 spell into a cantrip is a Level 2 Invocation. Being granted as some sort of level 17 capstone.

Even compared to an invocation it fails.

 

[mellored]

I would make hex a warlock only feature, scale by warlock level, usable at-will, with no concentration. Same as rangers got for hunter's mark.

Then they can add extra features that use it. Like when a hex target dies, it triggers Dark Ones Blessing. Or an invocation that lets you hex 2 at once, or gives the target additional penalties.

 

[Shardstone]

I've heard that Pact Magic is a level or two behind full caster using spell points as a conversion system. I intended to see if that was true.

Methodology: I took the number of spells a warlock can cast per day and converted them to spell points using the Variant rule in the DM. So, if a warlock gets two 3rd level spell slots, I took the cost of a third level spell (5) and doubled it. I then assumed a warlock would refresh all their spell slots on a short rest and did one short rest (doubling) and two short rests (tripling). I compared that then to what a half-caster would get as far as SP again using the DMG.
I did not account for Mystic Arcanum, the free Patron spell, or any invocations. This is pure Pact Mage to half-caster.

Results
View attachment 283323

Analysis:
Pact Magic without any rest is awful. It's almost worse than an EB/AT 1/3 caster.
Pact Magic with one rest is almost equal to half caster. Admittedly, it maintains a solid lead through most of the progression (finally falling behind only at 15th level) but the half-caster pulls within a point or so several times.
Pact Magic with two rests keeps pace with a full caster for the first ten levels, but after that falls bending hard. Topping out at the equivalent of a 13th level caster. Again, MA would make up a lot of slack on this (effectively emulating 43 additional points worth of high-level spells right around the same time a full caster gets them) but the limited nature of MA doesn't quite equal the full caster's range of high-level magic.

So, you could look at it like the warlock is effectively a third-caster, a half-caster, or not-quite a full caster, depending on the number of times you rest. But again, that doesn't quite tell the whole story. Even if a 10th level warlock has 28 spell points to play with after a rest, they are still tied up in only four uses. He can't burn only three points to cast Misty step, he must burn seven. So even as his point amount increases, the amount he must spend to do anything also rises. He has the power budget of other casters with not the versatility.

It appears WotC opted for the equivalent of a warlock +1 rest to equal a half-caster. It makes sense to pick one rest as two is not always possible (best case scenario) while no rests are too stingy. It also makes sense due to the class's slots topping out at 5th (with higher being handled by MA).

Final Thought: It's still wild to think that a warlock under 10th level is roughly the equivalent of an Arcane Trickster if he doesn't get a rest, a Ranger if he gets one rest, or a Bard if he gets two rests. It shows the wild disparity in power all based on if you can get your contracted breaks or not!

I think it also shows why people have such wildly different experiences with the class. If you were in a game with frequent short breaks, the warlock felt on par with the other main casters. If you were in a game with few or no short rests, you were playing with one hand tied behind your back.

Wow. Thank you for doing this, it really says it all IMO.

Def think this alone is a strong enough argument for Pact Magic to go!

 

[the Jester]

Keep pact magic.

 

[Yaarel]

Def think this alone is a strong enough argument for Pact Magic to go!

Yeah.

Or better yet the opposite.

Make all fullcasters use Pact Magic instead. The short-rest schedule balances better compared to noncasters.

Switching to the short-rest, but converting to spell points for more flexibility, is excellent.

 

[Shardstone]

Yeah.

Or better yet the opposite.

Make all fullcasters use Pact Magic instead. The short-rest schedule balances better compared to noncasters.

Switching to the short-rest, but converting to spell points for more flexibility, is excellent.

This is what I did for my 5E game modification! I also use points, but not spell points, I have a custom-made point system that gets used for some other things too (magic items with charges, regaining class features, etc)