D&D 5E Warlocks and high level play

[Zalabim]

I assumed that attack rolls hit 50% of the time (and therefore halved average damage on attack spells) and assumed saving throws were made half of the time (for 75% damage on save spells).

Those assumptions are way off the mark from normal monster stats. To hit only 50% of the time at level 11, enemies would have to have AC 20 (or AC 18 and cover) on average. It takes a +6 saving throw bonus to save versus a spell half the time, or a +2 bonus with magic resistance. AC rarely gets over 18, especially at level 11, and both saving throws and AC vary widely. Assuming 75% when the real value is 60-90% is a minor adjustment for convenience, but assuming 50% when the real value is 60-80% seems like a major understatement. Just imagine if the warlock's single target numbers were 20-40% higher.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

Those assumptions are way off the mark from normal monster stats. To hit only 50% of the time at level 11, enemies would have to have AC 20 (or AC 18 and cover) on average. It takes a +6 saving throw bonus to save versus a spell half the time, or a +2 bonus with magic resistance. AC rarely gets over 18, especially at level 11, and both saving throws and AC vary widely. Assuming 75% when the real value is 60-90% is a minor adjustment for convenience, but assuming 50% when the real value is 60-80% seems like a major understatement. Just imagine if the warlock's single target numbers were 20-40% higher.

Those numbers look about right, in my experience.

One other thing to remember is that the Warlock's spell list is heavy on spells that grant advantage one way or another. (especially the Fey Pact spell list) So a Warlock build focused on getting advantage will be extremely accurate. And get more critical hits.

The quick and dirty list:

True Strike (cantrip, probably a trap)
Faerie Fire (Fey pact, saving throw)
Sleep (Fey pact, wake up after 1st hit)
Tasha's Hideous Laughter (GOO pact, saving throw)
Darkness (with Devil's Sight invocation)
Hold Person
Invisibility (1st attack ends spell)
Blindness/Deafness (Fiend pact)
Hunger of Hadar (with Devil's Sight invocation
Hypnotic Pattern (saving throw, ends if attacked?)
Greater Invisibility (Fey pact, concentration)
Hold Monster
Eyebite
Dominate Monster
Power Word Stun
Foresight (best of the best!)

I'm not sure about the Elemental Evil spell list yet.

 

[EroGaki]

My experience as GM running a sandbox is that the Warlock seems very limited and is
always running out of spells, unless he can short-rest frequently - and 5e isn't set up for resting after every fight. And even his good
spells are usually only slightly better than a round of berserk attacking from the barbarian.
I'm pretty sure a Bard or Wizard would have more impact, able to nova, use lots of rituals for free, etc.

Well that's disappointing.

 

[Eric V]

Well that's disappointing.

I am actually wondering what the heck my warlock is going to do when/if we face Tiamat at the end of RoT.... :/

 

[Arial Black]

Any class that allows you to play Elric, as is, is worth it in my view!

As someone who has considered this, I note that a Bladelock could not have Stormbringer as his pact weapon as that weapon is sentient.

 

[Kobold Stew]

So, Mystic Arcanum. That more than anything worries me. They seem rather...bad. Once per day abilities from a very limited list, hence very little customization.

If you compare a warlock to another caster, they get (for the most part) just as many 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th level spells (excluding the 6th and 7th slot at 19-20), and it's only 5th level slots and below where there is a difference. A warlock get's fewer slots but their slots are far more top-heavy.

For me it's not the number of slots, but the lack of variability over the course of a campaign. I'm fine having one 6th-level spell a day (and so on); the issue is that once chosen, the spell cannot be tailored to the adventure or the campaign; there is nothing tactical about it.

And so, for example, for 7th level arcanum I would either ALWAYS take Plane Shift (I like the thought of multi planar adventures; it has utility and offensive uses; etc.), or else NEVER take Plane Shift (because there's a cleric in the party who can cast it whenever there is need for the utility).

If it were possible to make substitutions when you level up (or when you gain a new Arcanum, or whatever), there would be some resilience there. Without that, I take a spell that is either situationally useful (and so desirable, because it's the sort of game I want) or else COMPLETELY REDUNDANT since a cleric or wizard in the part has it trivially, as desired.

That's my trouble with Warlocks -- not on the scale of the spells/day, or the utility of a given adventure, but over the course of a campaign.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Interestingly, an Eldritch Knight, unlike a bladelock, would be able to bond with Stormbringer/Blackrazor. I have no idea why the difference exists.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

I am actually wondering what the heck my warlock is going to do when/if we face Tiamat at the end of RoT.... :/

I was just wondering about that myself.

1) If we're up to 17th level by then, I will have Foresight. I get Advantage, Tiamat attacks me with Disadvantage, and that's that.

2) We're still early in the campaign and I just commissioned a wizard NPC to create a Dragonbane Sword for me. We rescued her from a dragon, and I gave her my share of its horde after we killed it, (I didn't really need the gold) so she's very agreeable to the idea. By the time we have to face Tiamat, I will most likely have myself a Dragonbane pact blade.

3) I'm not sure about Dominate Monster. Is it even possible to charm Tiamat? (I'm thinking No.)

4) The Fey ability Dark Delerium might work, if used to frighten instead of charm. Unless Tiamat is also immune to fear? Ugh.

5) The Blink spell is my friend. Unless Tiamat can see me when I'm ethereal....

Yeah, that fight's gonna suck.

 

[TrippyHippy]

As someone who has considered this, I note that a Bladelock could not have Stormbringer as his pact weapon as that weapon is sentient.

"You can transform one magic item into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold that weapon". p108PHB

That is to say, if you procure an intelligent magical weapon, you can convert it into your own personalised Warlock weapon.

Moreover, your Warlock blade is magical already, while the various Invocations - Thirsting Blade, Lifedrinker - as well as The Fiend's abilities - Dark One's Blessing, Dark One's Own Luck, Hurl Through Hell - perfectly mirror the types of abilities that Stormbringer possessed.

As a point of roleplaying, who is to say that the Warlock Blade you keep summoning doesn't have some sort of malevolent intelligence that is covertly guiding you to hell and oblivion.......

 

[EroGaki]

I am actually wondering what the heck my warlock is going to do when/if we face Tiamat at the end of RoT.... :/

Eldritch blast. All day, every day.