Warlocks, Dispel Magic and overlapping invocations

[MarkB]

Something that occurred to me whilst reading the thread on countering spiderwalking / fell-flying warlocks:

Although warlocks' invocations are spell-like abilities, they follow most of the normal rules for spells. And when you cast two instances of the same non-instantaneous spell upon a subject, their effects generally overlap rather than stacking, and the second casting will remain in effect when the first runs out. And, importantly, each of them requires a separate caster level check when the creature is the subject of a dispel magic attempt.

So, how does that relate to warlock invocations? I can't find anything in the warlock class description or the Invocations header text which indicates that multiple castings of the same invocation would not overlap, nor does the description of spell-like abilities seem to preclude a creature subjecting itself to multiple instances of the same at-will ability.

As a for-instance, could a 6th level warlock spend five minutes at the start of the day doing nothing except repeatedly invoking fell flight, building up a total of fifty overlapping castings and thus making him practically immune to being brought down by anything less than a high-level casting of greater dispel magic?

Yes, it's very cheesy, and I'd houserule it instantly if a player tried it - but is it actually illegal by the rules?

 

[Infiniti2000]

That's perfectly legal and I see nothing wrong with it. If the warlock can, in fact, cast that many fell flights, then go for it. It's been a while since I've read the warlock class, but if such a mechanic is unreasonable to you, then perhaps the problem lies within the warlock class. If a sorcerer spent 3 slots (for example) on fly, would you also houserule that? You shouldn't change the way the overlapping works, but the actualy problem itself (if it is a problem).

 

[moritheil]

Yes, it would work, and no, I wouldn't houserule it - but the character would get a visit from his less-than-amused patron.

Inf, a warlock can use invocations at will.

PS - it's not accurate to say that it's impossible to dispel all of them, just that the odds go down a lot. It's still theoretically possible for, say, an overchanneling psionic dispel to take all of them out.

 

[TheGogmagog]

What's the duration of fell flight? The spiderclimb thread mentioned it didn't follow fly spell rules, but I though most of the invocations referenced spells. Wouldn't duration apply too?

Similar to a ring of invisibility. Sure you can spend all day invisible, but only if you dedicate yourself to activate the ring every 3 minutes.

 

[MarkB]

Yes, it would work, and no, I wouldn't houserule it - but the character would get a visit from his less-than-amused patron.

Good Warlocks whose ancestors' patron is evil will probably be annoying enough to him, even without using multiple invocations.

PS - it's not accurate to say that it's impossible to dispel all of them, just that the odds go down a lot. It's still theoretically possible for, say, an overchanneling psionic dispel to take all of them out.

Well, I did say practically immune.

 

[MarkB]

What's the duration of fell flight? The spiderclimb thread mentioned it didn't follow fly spell rules, but I though most of the invocations referenced spells. Wouldn't duration apply too?

Similar to a ring of invisibility. Sure you can spend all day invisible, but only if you dedicate yourself to activate the ring every 3 minutes.

Most warlock self-buff invocations, including Fell Flight, have their durations pegged at 24 hours.

 

[moritheil]

Good Warlocks whose ancestors' patron is evil will probably be annoying enough to him, even without using multiple invocations.

Indeed; my point is that the DM is within his or her rights to say something like, "Because you keep using the same invocations over and over, you have attracted the attention of your patron, and he is not pleased. Knowledge (planes) checks for anyone who wants them."

Well, I did say practically immune.

Indeed; I'm just clarifying the point before someone who hasn't thought the matter over reflexively posts, "HAX! Warlocks are teh brokenzors!" or something similarly inspired.

 

[Zander]

As a for-instance, could a 6th level warlock spend five minutes at the start of the day doing nothing except repeatedly invoking fell flight, building up a total of fifty overlapping castings and thus making him practically immune to being brought down by anything less than a high-level casting of greater dispel magic?

As has been pointed out, in the RAW, there's nothing against it. Among other reasons, that's why the warlock is seriously overpowered.

By 6th level, a warlock can fly at will and do an almost guaranteed 3d6 damage every round.