Warlords Heal?

[HeavenShallBurn]

Hrm. How do you explain an elephant being able to take less damage than a 15th-level fighter?

Brad

Because he's 15th level! By the time a character has reached 10th level let alone 15th he's effectively a supernatural being, how else do you explain his ability to make a 40+ft running leap or slaughter an entire company of low level characters singlehanded. People look at the HP see a 15th level Barbarian has more than an elephant and don't go any further. But that same 15th level barbarian also has a decent chance of wrestling the elephant to the ground and pinning it. Which clearly illustrates they have left the ordinary realm behind and become something inherently fantastic that has no place in our real world.

 

[sidonunspa]

Have you ever watched The Princess Bride? There's a scene in it where Inigo Montoya has been stabbed repeatedly by the Six-Fingered Man. He's in pain, bleeding, on the way to death. Then, her remembers his mission, and begins to repeat, "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." He rises up, an returns to the duel.

With each repetition, Inigo gains strength and speed. He's just as physically wounded, but he's up and fighting again.

In this case, Inigo inspired himself, but the same idea operates about as well if someone else reminds you of why you are there, what you're doing, and what it is you've got that's worth living for...

One point for quoting the The Princess Bride, and One point for making a damn good point.

I'm a statmonkey and I approve this message

 

[Henry]

...But that same 15th level barbarian also has a decent chance of wrestling the elephant to the ground and pinning it. Which clearly illustrates they have left the ordinary realm behind and become something inherently fantastic that has no place in our real world.

Actually, that elephant is two size categories larger than the barbarian, so he will automatically lose any attempt to hold.

 

[lukelightning]

In at least partial agreement. I've always treated HP as actual physical damage NOT as an abstraction of any kind.

Me too. I just say that in this fantasy world, it's an accepted fact that you can hit certain people in the head with hammers repeatedly and they just don't die. Kind of like Rasputin.

 

[Howndawg]

I recall in the PHBII that the Marshal had an alternative class ability called Adrenaline Surge or Boost that granted temporary hit points. I expect the Warlord to have similar abilities.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Actually, that elephant is two size categories larger than the barbarian, so he will automatically lose any attempt to hold.

Oops, forgot about that one. Now if the barbarian is a goliath it works.

 

[WayneLigon]

It might very well supposed to represent all what you said above and maybe I'm thinking things too far, but in my head mechanics and naming doesn't seem to support hp as mere "abstract" for damage, mental and physical exhaustion, morale etc.

Well the terminology could stand some change, but HP have always been a somewhat abstract concept from 1E and onwards. You could look on divine healing as simple a replenishment of Grace

But at the end of the day, it's an abstract game concept that simple to deal with and understand. There are better ways of doing it that are probably just as simple and easy, and we'll probably see those eventually; I was hoping we'd see more movement towards that in 4E but it doesn't looke like it right now. Hit Points will probably be the last of the sacred cows to fall.

 

[Kintara]

Because he's 15th level! By the time a character has reached 10th level let alone 15th he's effectively a supernatural being, how else do you explain his ability to make a 40+ft running leap or slaughter an entire company of low level characters singlehanded. People look at the HP see a 15th level Barbarian has more than an elephant and don't go any further. But that same 15th level barbarian also has a decent chance of wrestling the elephant to the ground and pinning it. Which clearly illustrates they have left the ordinary realm behind and become something inherently fantastic that has no place in our real world.

But he isn't a supernatural being. He's an extraordinary being. He's used training and skill to attain that level of badassness. He's not flush with magical power. He's simply highly skilled. I don't think this accounts for anything, either way.

HP doesn't become more realistic if it's just a matter of being physically difficult to damage. If a Fighter can get that physically tough through training, then I fail to see why HP can't represent the martial spirit, staying power, skill, and luck. HP is an abstraction no matter how you interpret it.

 

[Zurai]

Okay, so if hit point damage is supposed to be abstract things like "Your morale is down and you feel less inspired to fight" or "you luck is running out/your getting tired and soon you will take actual deadly injuries" then Cure spells should not work to help those people== since all they do is knit bone and heal lacerations

False. Cure spells are positive energy. They uplift the spirit as well as close wounds.

 

[Beregar]

False. Cure spells are positive energy. They uplift the spirit as well as close wounds.

Like I pointed a page ago, it feels a bit strange spells like good hope, bless, prayer or bard songs don't heal at all since they, too, uplift the spirit.

Similarly by this logic, you would expect spells that actually mess with your emotional state deal hp damage. I.e. fear, crushing despair, bane, doom and so on.

Someone mentioned the 4E bloodied status and that perhaps that's the point where you actually start suffering physical wounds. So second wind abilities and such can only affect you up to this point maybe? Ditto with "morale healing"?