watering down encounters

mr.pink

First Post
So i am running a campaign where the main villan is the githyanki. The players (starting at level 1) will start in a mining camp made by the githyanki where they and about 30 other npcs are mining astral diamonds. the problem here lies in the fact that the githyanki are CR 11. even if i water them down using the method in the DMG it says the method becomes flawed past 5 levels up or down. so i have a couple ideas for balancing out the fight.

1) put hazards like rockslides and cave-ins all over the place and let them to passive checks to pick up on it

2)have the clerics in the group of 30 make a Eidolon that actually helps it's makers

how much would this help. I want it to be a tough fight but i want them to live

any other suggestions would be nice or tell me if this is too much help

there will be about 5 githyanki's in total but no more than 2 at a time


also i refuse to fudge rolls
 

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You could give Githyanki in your world a vulnerability related to something found in those mines. That's why they don't do the mining themselves.


You could also build lower level monsters yourself and call them Githyanki, of course.
 

If you use the level 12 Gith in the MM, your players will die, unless you can come up with something very far fetched. AC 27 will be extremely hard to hit for level 1 characters.

Take a level 5 or 6 whatever humanoid and reskin it as a Gith with watered down powers.

Example
Gith Guard Level 5 Soldier
Medium natural humanoid XP 200
Initiative +8 Senses Perception +5; low-light vision
HP 64; Bloodied 32
AC 21 ; Fortitude 21, Reflex 18, Will 19
Speed 5; see also telekinetic leap
m Silver Longsword (standard; at-will) * Weapon, Psychic
+12 vs. AC; 1d8+5 plus 1d6 psychic damage, plus an extra 2d6 if target is immobilized.
R Telekinetic Grasp (standard, encounter)
Range 5, medium or smaller target; +10 fortitude; the target is immobilized (save ends)
R Telekinetic Leap (move; encounter)
Ranged 10; the githyanki warrior or an ally within range can fly up to 5 squares.
Alignment Evil Languages Common, Deep Speech
Skills History +8, Insight +7
Str 20 (+7) Dex 14 (+4) Wis 10 (+2)
Con 16 (+5) Int 12 (+3) Cha 16 (+5)
Equipment plate armor, Silver Longsword
 

Don't make your PCs fight Githyanki in the first adventure. Have the slave overseers be some low-level subordinate race that the PCs can actually beat in a fight.

This way, as your PCs level up to the point where they can actually defeat one of the main villains, they will feel a real sense of accomplishment.
 

You could use these rules to make it an elite of lower level. That'd let you put it in the range of a possible threat, but a very serious and difficult one (say, a level 5 elite)

It'll be pretty threatening if it can hit an immobilized foe, though :)
 

CR? If you are looking for 3.5 advice, this is the wrong forum, just aheads up

If it was just a slip of the tongue and this is a 4e question, you can take low-level creatures from another race, and then compare the stats in the back of the book of those two races and make the changes, it should be alright.

But as said before, you shouldn't make one race your target throughout the entire campaign. Have some Gith around at the start to establish them as the villains, but then leave it for a while, as they 'escaped' and aren't ready to face them again
 

Don't have them fight to slay their captors. Just have them fight to get away. This is actually surprisingly plausible, against even very high level monsters -- they just don't do as much damage as you would expect. Against this particular captor, escape is virtually guaranteed. I mean, the Githyanki warrior only has a base speed of 5, and his main attack is melee. If the party splits up, he's catching at most one of them. If they run at top speed, he might not even catch that that one.

His main trick--the telekinetic grasp--is very nasty. His main attack has a damage expectation of 14 normally, but it goes up to 24.5 on an immobilized character. Normally, your characters will be able to take one solid hit from him and still get away. But after being immobilized, a crit or even just a lucky damage roll would drop them--and nothing stops him swinging again.

Note, however, that the telekinetic grasp is an encounter power. He's getting at most one party member with that trick. At least three are getting away, and if they can defeat the power, all four are.

That's not as hard as it looks.

For starters, it's range 5, and the guy has a base speed of 5. The "scream and run" strategy will get them well out of range, and plus, if they resort to that you'll know they Properly Fear and Hate your villians.

Also, it's save ends, so anything that grants a save could break it early. If you have a Cleric with Sacred Flame, that could do it, though he'll need mooks to shoot at. By the way, there are mooks in this fight, right? ;)

Because no fight is un-fun if there are mooks to kill. I recommend grabbing the stats for the Goblin Cutter, reflavoring him as a . . . githyanki foreman/engineer or something. Lose Goblin Tactics, maybe giving him a point or two of psychic damage.

Also, that guy's defenses look insurmountable, but they're not actually insurmountable. A standard wizard is going to start out with an int bonus of +5, perhaps a little better if he's using a wand. Shooting at a reflex of 23, he needs to roll an 18 to hit. Yeah, thats a 15% chance--lousy--but the thing is, his foe has a speed of 5. In a big enough room, he can kite the guy all day with magic missile. The fighter's in a similar spot; he gets +5 from strength, +3 Proficiency, +1 FWT, for a total +9 to attack, and he's swinging at an AC of 28. He needs 19's. 10%. Ugly, since he probably only gets one swing before he has to run . . . but not totally impossible. A little combat advantage here, a little Lead the Attack there, the odd Dragonborn Fury or Action Surge . . . and the fight very quickly can go from 'impossible' to just plain ol' 'reasonably tough'. It just depends on how clever and capable your players are. You may find you need to even the odds a little. Then again, you may find that you don't.

---------------------

Here's how I'd run it:

Prologue, if you want one - Your PCs and about 3 NPCs of the same level are in the mines together. The guards are two githyanki warriors -- straight from the monster manual -- and three minion githyanki mining engineers. One of the NPCs decides that you can take the guards, and starts a rebellion. If the players join him, fine; if not, fine. Play out the fight, don't pull punches, roll on the table and muse out loud, "Oh, yeah, 28? Yeah, I guess that hits his fort . . . just barely. . . " If the players miraculously win (and don't count that out, my players probably would . . .), great, if not, that's fine too. Probably nobody got killed outright, though a lot of people probably got dropped. Bring them back. Have the guards execute the rebellion's leader. Have a taskmaster ask if you shouldn't execute the whole lot, and the guard say, "Yeah, I would if we had a few more of their kind--as it is, I don't think they'll make that mistake again."

The point of this scene: Learn how those githyanki work up close and personal, see how hopeless it is to fight them, decide you hate the bad guys, build up some angst, etc.


Scene 1 - Your PCs and about 3 NPCs, mining in the mines. A critical event occurs -- a rockslide. Passageways open up in three directions. Klaxons go off. Two prisoners dive down a passageway and one of the githyanki guards follows. That leaves the PCs, one NPC, one guard, and three minions. If they think they can take him, let them try; make sure the NPC bites the dust fast as a warning, so they still have time to run. The expectation is that it turns into a running fight in the tunnels. If they manage to overpower the guard, let them exult for a moment . . . and then have two more show up, drawn by the klaxon. Have a long, skinny weaving tunnel with obstacles and tiny fights--rats and the like. Have that guard hot on their tails for three or four rounds, until they finally get to a quiet segment and can gain some distance.

Scene 2 - We need a morale booster by this point. They're running through the tunnels with a big nasty they can't take in hot pursuit. They happen upon a group of those engineers, maybe; maybe they're having a prisoner fight a giant rat for sport or something. They slaughter the bad guys easily, rescue the good guy. The place is defensible and concealable. Skill challenge -- thievery, dungeoneering, perhaps perception or stealth to make it look like the place was cut off during the cave in. Succeed and they hear their pursuer pass by. Take a breather.

- Pad with tunnel encounters / generic dungeon as desired -

Finale - My players would want to take down one of those guards by the end of the night, even if it wasn't in a fair fight. So let's do that. Say they get to the exit of the complex, and there's one guard waiting for them. He lost them in the tunnels, but he followed it to the end, since that's clearly where they're going. If the players want to take a healthy guard from scratch when they're well-prepared and rested, let them try; they can always push past him out the door of things go south. Alternatively, make it an unfair fight: have a higher level NPC (say, a nice self-sacrificing paladin) come along for the sole purpose of taking hits. Or have half a dozen other prisoners on the PC's side--run them like minions. They're also there just to take hits. Have the terrain favor ranged attacks. Give them a macguffin of githyanki slaying. Have a cave-in leave dust everywhere, leaving the guard blind for the fight. Have the original guard give up the chase, leaving just the junior guy who wants to impress his superiors (so knock a few levels off the original template).

It has the potential to be an awesome fight, but it requires reading the players' moods and capabilities right. It also has the potential to be very swingy, so make sure there are outs available--make sure running out the back door is always an option for the PCs, and make sure the players know it's a valid one.

I'd also consider running the githyanki 4 or 5 levels down from where he is in the book. If you do that, the PCs become much more likely to win any of the encounters with him alone. This may be what you want. I'd go into the evening with the two stat blocks, and swap them out between encounters depending on how the PCs are doing.

The whole thing is dangerous -- I wouldn't run it if you don't have players that think quickly and tactically, and that like dangerous games. Running a monster that high level is breaking a few rules; if you have players that will react to that sort of thing with 'sweet, a challenge' cries and evil grins, cool; if they'd react by whining or dying and blaming you, don't try it.

You can break the rules. 4E is surprisingly tolerent of it. Just be prepared to pick up the pieces.
 

Hmm... you can also have the gith soldier use his grasp on an NPC that's helping the PCs to escape. Makes it easier for them to escape and lets him show he's badass when he obliterates the NPC.
 

okay i made this, tell me if it's overpowered please

Githyanki Slavemaster Solo Controler Level 4

Hp:216
Ac: 24 Fortitude: 20 Reflex:20 Will: 20
speed:5
Action points:1

Silver Longsword (Standard; at will)
+9 vs. AC; 1d8+4

Demoralizing Strike (Minor; At will) burst 1
Trigger: Githyanki Slavemaster makes a succsessful hit against an opponent
+8 vs. Will target is dazed (save ends)

Telekenetic Domination (standard; encounter) ranged 10
+8 vs. Will, if this attack hits as a move action Githyanki Slavemaster can force the target to use an at-will power as a move action

Ability Scores

Str:18(+4) Dex:10(+0) Wis:12(+1)
Con:14(+2) Int:15(+2) Cha:15(+2)

Equipment: Silver Longsword, Leather Armor

After fighting(and beating hopefully) that one before boarding an astral skiff they will have to fight and beat (definetly), the only difference is equipment



Githyanki Slavemaster Solo Controler Level 4

Hp:216
Ac: 26 Fortitude: 20 Reflex:20 Will: 20
speed:5
Action points:1

Silver Greatsword (Standard; at will)
+9 vs. AC; 1d10+4

Demoralizing Strike (Minor; At will) burst 1
Trigger: Githyanki Slavemaster makes a succsessful hit against an opponent
+8 vs. Will target is dazed (save ends)

Telekenetic Domination (standard; encounter) ranged 10
+8 vs. Will, if this attack hits as a move action Githyanki Slavemaster can force the target to use an at-will power as a move action

Ability Scores

Str:18(+4) Dex:10(+0) Wis:12(+1)
Con:14(+2) Int:15(+2) Cha:15(+2)

Equipment: Silver Greatsword, Plate Armor
 
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A level 4 solo with 14 Con would have (8 * (4+1) + 14) * 4 = 216 hp
It would also have 2 AP

I would not suggest using that telekinetic domination power.

Fwiw, you could probably reflavor a green dragon into an interesting githyanki, with telekinetic slides, psychic assaults, ongoing psychic, etc.
 

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