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ways to increase BAB other other than leveling

apsuman

First Post
kreynolds said:


I didn't ignore your suggestions. No offense, but I just didn't find them appealing. I figured, why tell you that I don't like them if I don't also offer a way to make them better. Makes sense, right? :)

The first one might work though. I'm just not all fired up to find out.

Fair enough, but there is an awful lot of venom being thrown around in this thread. I thought I had a good idea.

Also, I think I am still a bit peeved because I still do not know the levels this character chose, and I think I asked twice. I just hate being ignored.

g!
 

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kreynolds

First Post
apsuman said:
Fair enough, but there is an awful lot of venom being thrown around in this thread.

True. I can tell you where my venom, if you can even call it that, which I don't think it can be, comes from. You know those kids in the grocery stores that I like to mention? I hate those kids.

apsuman said:
I thought I had a good idea.

Hey, it might be. My custom magic items work great in my games, but nobody here uses them. Does that mean they were a bad idea? No necessarily. :)

apsuman said:
Also, I think I am still a bit peeved because I still do not know the levels this character chose, and I think I asked twice. I just hate being ignored.

I hear ya'.
 

Crothian

First Post
apsuman said:


Fair enough, but there is an awful lot of venom being thrown around in this thread. I thought I had a good idea.

Also, I think I am still a bit peeved because I still do not know the levels this character chose, and I think I asked twice. I just hate being ignored.

g!

This is an arguement, facts have no reason for being here. :D

I'll second the need for seeing what the character in question is. While I'm against the idea in general, I will admit that this is one of the many situations that really depends on the circumstances.
 

fuindordm

First Post
There was more than one person, myself included, who posted responses along the lines of "This might be permissible, and doesn't sound too unbalancing." I think we just got swamped.

I honestly don't understand why people feel the need to post when they aren't saying anything new. It just makes it harder to develop whatever idea has been proposed. If you want to have an argument, why not do it privately so that other voices can be heard?

Anyway, I too would like to see the character in question. There are plenty of ways to give a character +1 BAB without being unbalancing. Simply insisting on "the rules say this" is not productive, is not interesting, and doesn't help those who are intrigued by the situation and would like to hash it out.

The question is not, "Should this be allowed?", because D&D is designed to be open-ended. There are several examples of spells and magic which break rules (for example, the Hammer of Thunderbolts allows enhancement bonuses on strength to stack) while leaving vague the exact mechanisms by which these rules are broken. This is what the DM is for, and just because the DM allows an exception to occur doesn't mean that they're stretching the rules of the game beyond the breaking point.

The appropriate question is "What should this cost the player?" Let's think of creative ways to give the player what they want, and then let the player decide whether the price is worth it. Isn't this more fun to discuss?

For example:

1) Allow a wish to do it. The price is 5000xp.
2) Allow a wish to swap a mage level with a fighter level. The price is 5000xp plus the reduction in magical power.
3) Allow a wish to do it, but make the player aware that this is beyond the normal scope of a wish and there may be unforseen consequences. The price is 5000xp plus whatever the DM sees fit to impose, but the player doesn't know beforehand what the Monkey's Paw will be.
4) The wish will create some lesser version of Tenser's Transformation and make it permanent. Cost is 5000xp, plus more xp for the permanency effect. In addition, the BAB might be dispelled in the future.
5) Allow the character to level up in their humanoid "monster class", if they are a monster or wish to become one.
6) Allow the character to invest an entire level's worth of XP in gaining +1 BAB but no other special abilities.

Some of you may think that all of these options are unbalancing and shouldn't be allowed. If so, I hope you will keep it to yourself in the interests of cultivating a more interesting discussion.

So let's see that character, and let's see some other ideas!

--Ben
 

kreynolds

First Post
fuindordm said:
If you want to have an argument, why not do it privately so that other voices can be heard?

Oh, right. I forgot about the #0 rule of messageboards, "If you disagree, don't respond". :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

Henry

Autoexreginated
Ignoring the nasty feelings and the whole "you are kowtowing to a whiner" arguments - I have one question:

Would those who vehemently deny this player the chance to get his BAB, have had no argument if he had legitimately worked his way up with the requisite number of classes to get his extra attack?

The answer is is yes. There would be no argument if he legitimately had that level of Ranger, instead of wizard, or whatever.

Let the poor schmuck change one level of wizard for Ranger, or whatever is required. What he is gaining in BAB he is losing in wizard power. He might get that power back later at 21st level, but it is no different from the player who chose the correct classes to get this benefit in the first place.

If the other players have no qualms, offer him the option to exchange one of his wizard levels (and MAKE HIM RETROACTIVELY WORK ON ALL SKILLS, FEATS, ETC. WHEN DOING THIS) for ranger levels, and then move on. In the scheme of a two-year campaign, with all the fun and enjoyment that has been had previously, it is not that big of a ****ing deal.

I will NEVER again give a player grief over a poor choice in character abilities, especially when it doesn't change the original character concept. I learned that lesson the hard way over years of gaming.
 

kreynolds

First Post
Henry said:
Let the poor schmuck change one level of wizard for Ranger, or whatever is required.

This was suggested waaaayyyyyyy back in the thread. It's definately a possiblity, and one that I probably wouldn't have much problem with. I could justify it in-game by just level draining the poor sod, then he can pick up whatever new class he wants.
 
Last edited:

Crothian

First Post
kreynolds said:


This was suggested waaaayyyyyyy back in the thread. It's definately a possiblity, and one that I probably wouldn't have much problem with. I could justify it in-game by just level draining the poor sod, then he can pick up whatever new class he wants.

Well, it might require the loss of 2 or more levels. If he's an even level mage the loss of a a level will reduce his BAB, so he needs to lose two levels. If he's trying to lose levels with cleric BAB progression he might have to lose up to 4 levels before it makes a difference.

Personally, I have no problem him loosing levels and then eranin them back. To just switch out the levels I'd require some quest so there is an in game reason for the change happening.
 

Trionan

Villager
one of my party members is level 20 and is one point away from having 4 normal attacks. He asked me if I knew of any way to get one more point... because once you get to epic levels your BAB never goes up. He sugested using a wish to change one of his wiz levels for a ranger level. BTW he is an arcane archer by trade. also is it posiable to get an iten that would rais your BAB by one. this doesn't seen too powerful an item but I would like to know what you think.

I didnt read all 6 pages of this but I did find the attached chart in the Epic handbook. Epic Attack Bonus is essentially Epic BAB.

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CapnZapp

Legend
I like it. Not only did he perform a high level necromancy (18 years!), he took the effort to dig up an old PDF and copy out a table from it. The suave nonchalance is just the icing on the cake.
 




I like it. Not only did he perform a high level necromancy (18 years!), he took the effort to dig up an old PDF and copy out a table from it. The suave nonchalance is just the icing on the cake.

I saw a thread resurrection like this yesterday, only 15 years (almost old enough to drive). This thread appears to be old enough to vote. :)
 

Puggins

Explorer
Supporter
I mean, you can always necro one intentionally jsut for kicks, but eighteen years might be some kind of record. We're talking 3.0 and a book I bought in Waldenbooks in a mall that's been closed for a decade (the mall, not the bookstore, which got closed long before that). My daughter's a senior in high school and she's younger than this thread. This is awesome!
 

glass

(he, him)
I didnt read all 6 pages of this but I did find the attached chart in the Epic handbook. Epic Attack Bonus is essentially Epic BAB.
I imagine it is of limited use to the original poster who has presumably moved on, but for posterity EAB explicitly does not grant and extra attacks, which is what the OP was after. Personally, in those rare occasions when I have used 3.P character of above 20th level, I have ruled it as the best 20 levels not the first 20 levels. Which is a change from the ELH, but far from the only one....

BTW, does anyone know why this thread is in the Pathfinder & Starfinder forum and flagged PF1? Pathfinder did not even exist in 2002.

_
glass.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Supporter
I mean, you can always necro one intentionally jsut for kicks, but eighteen years might be some kind of record. We're talking 3.0 and a book I bought in Waldenbooks in a mall that's been closed for a decade (the mall, not the bookstore, which got closed long before that). My daughter's a senior in high school and she's younger than this thread. This is awesome!
It's pretty much an untouchable record, since the oldest posts here date back to 2002.
 

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