ways to increase BAB other other than leveling

[rushlight]

"Really, it all boils down to this. Someone asked could you do it, the answer is no..."

That's where you are flat wrong. It is their game, and they can give him a BAB of +306 if they wanted to. The original point of the question as I read is was asking if there was a method already built-in that would allow this. There is, it is the spell Wish. Wish allows anything the GM wants it to. The GM needs to weigh the effects of +1 BAB for a 21st level character versus the cost of casting Wish and the implications to his game. If he finds that +1 BAB will not imbalance his game he can allow it. If he finds that +1 BAB will cause problems, then he can say no. That's all that really needs to be addressed here. So far I can't see any valid arguments for +1 BAB causing imbalance at 21st level, but of course I'm not involved in the game so I don't know any details. Just a glance at average "game conditions" though I wouldn't say that +1 BAB is unbalancing, and that's what the previous example I posted shows.

"2) Once again, if it's such a trivial attack, why throw a fit?"

Well, no one is really throwing a fit. You seem to be focusing on WHY he wants +1 BAB, while the question is something different. Why he wants it is irrelevant. The questions are: 1) Can he do it and 2) If he can, does that hurt the game?

Well, my answers are:

1) Yes he can, since Wish allows for ANYTHING (although asking for too much can be dangerous, just like it says in the spell description).

2) I don't think it makes much difference at all when you are a 21st level party. The monsters you are fighting will have a high enough AC or other magical abilities to offset any benefit gained.

Don't worry about why he wants to do it, it doesn't matter. I've even said that I wouldn't do it, but if he wants too then go for it. For the GM in question he needs to take all the information available and decide if it unbalances HIS game. If he feels that it doesn't, the Wish spell allows a legal in-game method to achieve the goal, as opposed to doing out-of-game alterations.

Unless you can show that my copy of Wish is wrong or that there's a serious unbalancing effect caused by having a 5% chance (or less) of hitting a creature then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[LordAO]

Actually, what your post does sound like is that you min/maxed and are now upset that you didn't have enough foresight to know that BABs were not going to work the same. And now your buddy is laughing at you because he has a slight edge.

Excuse me for offering my opnion, I wouldn't have if I knew I would be insulted personally. Nobody said you have to agree with me. I don't care if you do. But there's no need to attack people personally. And for your info, I'm the DM and don't even have a character, so the last thing I'm worried about is not doing it right. I know the system well enough to min/max as well as the best, but I don't because that's not what is important to me. I'm concerned about the way I heard the epic level rules work because I think it encourages that kind of thinking, not because I think that way. I don't have any problem letting people adjust their characters to get the benefit of the doubt. In fact, I plan to help my players do just that if and when they reach epic levels.

 

[Crothian]

It is his game, and he is free to do what he likes. However, he choose to ask for other people's opinions. Unless you use rule zero, BAB can not be increased. However, if rule zero is assumed to always be used it makes this forum useless.

 

[kreynolds]

That's where you are flat wrong. <snip>

An opinion was asked for. I gave it. It isn't wrong. According to me, the answer is no. According to the rules, the answer is no. If anyone doesn't like that answer, fine, but if anyone is just gonna piss and moan because you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear, don't bother posting again.

I never said his DM couldn't do it. What his DM does is none of my business, and I could care less.

 

[Mr.Binx]

How does someone incorporate a BAB into a wish anyhoo? That really doesn't sound very RP-oriented. Anyone able to word it well in my game would get the benefits of a Tenser's Transformation spell for a good couple of rounds (which just happens to be in the realm of listed power for a wish spell). If they ask for the benefits to be permanent, then put them in stasis immediately afterwards. Give people what they ask for, neh?

 

[Plane Sailing]

You can't spend so much XP creating a magic item that you would lose a level. If you don't have enough XP to spend without losing a level, you can't make the item.

Well, that was only part of my thesis, which is cast enough wishes that you lose a level. I can't offhand find out whether you are allowed to lose a level from a wish, so you might want to cast just enough wishes so that your xp is near enough to the threshold and then kill your familiar, since that WILL cause you to lose the level.

Then earn the level back the long way.

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

An opinion was asked for. I gave it. It isn't wrong. According to me, the answer is no.

A very fair statement

According to the rules, the answer is no.

Not a fair statement though. It is only according to your interpretation of the rules.

The forums are a great place to chew ideas over with people, and get alternative views on how to handle an issue. Sometimes other people have an insight into the application of a rule which is useful, at other times not. In many (most?) cases it is about individuals explaining their interpretation of a rule.

After all, the books don't say "check with the ENWorld forums" do they? Just "Check with your dungeon master"

Cheers

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I have to disagree completely. As a rule PrC classes are more powerful that base classes. You went for that power sooner by grabbing it at Wizard 10. As Yoda would say you took the quick easy path. Sure it got you into your PrC class two levels sooner but the long term effect is the loss of a few points of BAB and save.

That my friend is balancing factors.

I think it's stupid the way they did attack bonuses and saves in the ELH, because now everyone is worrying about having this combination of levels in that order, unfairly screwing people who make the "mistake" of getting this class at this level instead of that one. All it does is give power players another wepon in their arsenal and leads them further down the road to min/maxing obsession. In the mean time, those who actually care about their character and things like roleplaying get screwed by the rules into having a suckier character. Why should my attack bonus and all of my saves be one point lower (an yes that does matter) because im a Wiz 12/ War Wizard5/ Archmage 5 and i got the extra 2 levels of Wiz after 20th level. If i had got 12th lev wizard before lev 20 and only lev 4 in the other classes my attack and saves would all be 1 pt higher. Its the exact same combination of levels and the exact same character. Why should i be punished because of the order i got those classes?! So if somebody wants to give their characters the benefit of the doubt, I say get over it.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Ummm, actually a +1 generally does nothing. Now a +2 to strength will grant you a +1 increase to strength related items.

[B Let's face it, Wish gives +1 to Strength, which is the exact same as a +1 BAB [/B]

 

[LordAO]

How is getting a prestige class "the easy path". So sorry I don't follow your dignified way to character developement. I'd have to work just as hard to develop that character as any other. As a general rule, yes, prestige classes are a little more focused and specialized than normal classes, and thus, more powerful. But there are also a whole lot of requirements, disadvantages, etc that make up for it. Getting prestige classes is anything but the "quick and easy" way to develop a character. Besides, that isn't even relevant. Those classes don't even have to be prestige. Even most combinations of any classes will get screwed by the epic rules, such as the Sorcerer 20/Fighter 20 having a higher base attack than a Fighter 20/Sorcerer 20.