D&D (2024) We have Arcane, Divine, and Primal lists now. Why not Psionic?

[Yaarel]

The Psionic discipline spell lists do a better job at organizing the spells thematically, than the school spell lists do.

It is worthwhile to revamp the schools, with the disciplines in mind.

Something like

Divination (Clairsentiance) (Psychoportation 1): spacetime, remote presence, teleport, precognition, luck
Enchantment (Telepathy): mind magic
Illusion (Metacreativity): alter reality, quasi-real phenomena, convincing realistic force constructs
Dunomancy (Psychokinesis 1): force magic, telekinesis, telekinetic flight, simple force constructs, Ethereal
Evocation (Psychokinesis 2): Air, Water, Fire, elemental energies
Transmutation (Psychometabolism): Earth, Plant, Beast, shapeshifting, healing
Conjuration (Psychoportation 2): planeshift, Astral, Celestial, summoning
Necromancy (Psychoportation 3): Shadow, Undead, Fiend, Aberration

 

[Marandahir]

This is why I'd want a Elemental and Astral spell lists before a Psionic one.

The description of the Primal spell list makes explicit that includes the elemental powers of the inner planes alongside the primal spirits of natural world.

I'd argue that Astral is similarly included in Divine.

Planar source of magic ≠ Magic Spell List. There's a reason why we never got a pure Elemental or pure Shadow class in 4e; they just didn't make sense as the sole power source the way Martial, Arcane, Divine, Primal, and Psionic do. And even Ki had to be rolled into Psionic because it was clear that it was stepping on the toes of other classes. And they realised that other classes like the Paladin and the Barbarian really might be multi-power sourced because what makes them not Martial classes? They're as martial as they are their other power sources, at least.

Fey, Shadow, and Elemental all seem like they could be drawn on with either Arcane or Primal magic. Shadow might even be drawn on by Divine magic, if we consider the Raven Queen, Nerull, Wee Jas, Kelemvor, etc Divine.

 

[Minigiant]

The description of the Primal spell list makes explicit that includes the elemental powers of the inner planes alongside the primal spirits of natural world.

I'd argue that Astral is similarly included in Divine.

Planar source of magic ≠ Magic Spell List. There's a reason why we never got a pure Elemental or pure Shadow class in 4e; they just didn't make sense as the sole power source the way Martial, Arcane, Divine, Primal, and Psionic do. And even Ki had to be rolled into Psionic because it was clear that it was stepping on the toes of other classes. And they realised that other classes like the Paladin and the Barbarian really might be multi-power sourced because what makes them not Martial classes? They're as martial as they are their other power sources, at least.

Fey, Shadow, and Elemental all seem like they could be drawn on with either Arcane or Primal magic. Shadow might even be drawn on by Divine magic, if we consider the Raven Queen, Nerull, Wee Jas, Kelemvor, etc Divine.

The issue is WOTC and most 3PP never go hard enough.

Primal taps into the Elemental inner planes but lacks the best fire, ice, lighting, and acid spells. Or not even the more raw interpretations.

Divine encompasses the Astral but doesn't go into the magic of the mental rhetoric and spiritual fortification. Not tapping into the magic of a god of War or a titan of supreme knowledge.

Often I feel D&D creates a deep flavor on top of things but then never taps into it mechanical until the edition becomes starved for content to sell books.

 

[Marandahir]

The issue is WOTC and most 3PP never go hard enough.

Primal taps into the Elemental inner planes but lacks the best fire, ice, lighting, and acid spells. Or not even the more raw interpretations.

Divine encompasses the Astral but doesn't go into the magic of the mental rhetoric and spiritual fortification. Not tapping into the magic of a god of War or a titan of supreme knowledge.

Often I feel D&D creates a deep flavor on top of things but then never taps into it mechanical until the edition becomes starved for content to sell books.

I agree with that. But I do think conceptually this is the idea and why Elemental and Astral would not have their own spell lists here. The idea is to shrink the number of spell lists, not broaden them. You're of course allowed to homebrew whatever you want!

 

[Vaalingrade]

The idea is to shrink the number of spell lists, not broaden them.

I feel like they should really stop trumpeting D&D as a game where you can 'do anything' considering how much they limit in the name of simplicity and probably not having to do much extra work.

 

[Minigiant]

I agree with that. But I do think conceptually this is the idea and why Elemental and Astral would not have their own spell lists here. The idea is to shrink the number of spell lists, not broaden them. You're of course allowed to homebrew whatever you want!

Either shrink the lists and broaden their capacity or broaden the lists and shrink their capacity.

I mean the whole reason for this thread is because the mental spells in both Arcane and Divine ara weak sauce.