Weapon Attacks with fixed range or area

[Shin Okada]

This started from my question regarding Crescent Moon power from Dragon 386.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/294615-crescent-moon-power-dragon-386-a.html

Basically, there are 3 common types of weapon attacks, melee, ranged & close.

In case of melee and ranged, if the power says the range is "weapon", the case is simple.

"Melee Weapon" powers can be usable only with melee weapons as ranged weapons don't have melee reach.

"Ranged Weapon" powers can be usable only with ranged weapons and thrown weapons because non-thrown melee weapons don't have range.

But when a weapon power's attack has a fixed range or area, such as "Melee 2" (Warden's Thorn Strike), "Ranged 5" (Crescent Moon) or "Close Blast 3" (Cleric's Shield of the Gods), are there any rule to define what kind of weapon (melee or ranged) can be usable for that attack?

I have been thinking that Close Weapon attacks of Cleric powers should be usable only with melee weapons, naturally.

But Crescent Moon power's flavor text is suggesting that the attack can be done with non-thrown melee weapons. If so, maybe I can use weapon close power with fixed area (say, blast 3 or burst 2) with a ranged weapon?

Can I use a melee attack with a fixed range, say, Thorn Strike, with a bow?

 

[DracoSuave]

This started from my question regarding Crescent Moon power from Dragon 386.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-discussion/294615-crescent-moon-power-dragon-386-a.html

Basically, there are 3 common types of melee attacks, melee, ranged & close.

There's only one kind of melee attack. Melee. The others are not melee attacks.

In case of melee and ranged, if the power says the range is "weapon", the case is simple.

"Melee Weapon" powers can be usable only with melee weapons as ranged weapons don't have melee reach.

"Ranged Weapon" powers can be usable only with ranged weapons and thrown weapons because non-thrown melee weapons don't have range.

Correct and correct.

But when a weapon power's attack has a fixed range or area, such as "Melee 2" (Warden's Thorn Strike), "Ranged 5" (Crescent Moon) or "Close Blast 3" (Cleric's Shield of the Gods), are there any rule to define what kind of weapon (melee or ranged) can be usable for that attack?

Nope.

I have been thinking that Close Weapon attacks of Cleric powers should be usable only with melee weapons, naturally.

It's a good ruling. Nothing says this is so however.

But Crescent Moon power's flavor text is suggesting that the attack can be done with non-thrown melee weapons. If so, maybe I can use melee close power with fixed area (say, blast 3 or burst 2) with a ranged weapon?

What is a melee close power? That does not exist.

Can you use a close power with a ranged weapon? Nothing says you can't. But it's a good ruling to make.

Can I use a melee attack with a fixed range, say, Thorn Strike, with a bow?

Nothing says you can't. But it's a good ruling to make.

 

[Mengu]

To use a ranged weapon power, you need a ranged weapon (including thrown weapons), regardless of whether its range is "Ranged weapon" or a fixed number such as "Ranged 5".

If you are allowed to use a melee weapon for a ranged attack, the power will specifically say so. Take a look at a number of swordmage powers that indicate you must throw your melee weapon, and that your melee weapon returns to you (Falcon's Mark and Blade Bolt are two such examples).

If there is no such indication on the ranged weapon attack, you must use a ranged weapon.

For a melee attack, you must use a melee weapon, unless specified otherwise (such as with Sharpshooter's Stab and Shoot). So no you cannot Thorn Strike with a bow.

In order to use the power Crescent Moon, you must use a ranged (or thrown) weapon. This is likely unintended, and the power should have been Melee 5 (not Ranged 5).

Edit: Close weapon attacks can be made with melee or ranged weapons. If you make the attack with a ranged weapon, you need one piece of ammunition for each target.

Edit2: Draco in the other thread is right, that there is no rule that says you can't make a ranged attack with a melee weapon. However I think we can use "case law" to glean the intent looking at examples such as the swordmage powers.

 

[DracoSuave]

Edit2: Draco in the other thread is right, that there is no rule that says you can't make a ranged attack with a melee weapon. However I think we can use "case law" to glean the intent looking at examples such as the swordmage powers.

I see nothing wrong with doing that, and that's how I normally do rule.

 

[Shin Okada]

There's only one kind of melee attack. Melee. The others are not melee attacks.

Are, my bad, I wanted to say weapon attacks, I will re-write the original post.

What is a melee close power? That does not exist.

Again, that meant to be weapon close power. I will edit the original post.