D&D General Weapon Mastery - Yea or Nay?

[Stalker0]

My rough experience is that it only applies to roughly half the attacks that get made with a toppling weapon. Often less.

Ok so a fighter is getting about 8 attacks a fighter roughly (3 rounds, 4 attacks on the first with action surge, 2 on rounds 2 and 3).

So 4 extra saving throws in every fight....which is still a lot.


I would also argue you said that prone characters you don't apply the effect....except in terms of conversation time I do. Happens all the time.

Player: I hit them for X. Oh yeah and my topple activates, that's DC...um....what's the DC....its"
DM: "don't forget he's already prone".
Player: "oh yeeeeeah....nvm."

Sure a save wasn't rolled, but I still have to take half a minute to remind them of that part. And again not that big a deal in one fight, but when its over and over and over and over again it does get quite tedious.

 

[Gorck]

I finally got around to playing with the 2024 rules last weekend. My daughter was DMing and I was playing a Barbarian and a Rogue. Our combats were a 50/50 split between me completely forgetting to use Weapon Masteries and me remembering to use them, and then thinking, “wow, that was a tad bit excessive.” When I did remember to use them, my daughter wasn’t too pleased with how easily I was mowing down the enemies. Between my Barbarian’s Cleave and my Rogue’s Nick & Vex, combats were a breeze when I used WMs.

I’m thinking about it more and I’m leaning towards:

-Only Fighters should get WMs.
-They should be able to use the WM of any weapon (no “they only know x WMs”)
-They shouldn’t be able to mix and match WMs with different weapons (i.e. no Cleave with a Longsword)

 

[Bill Zebub]

Yea, I want more of this kind of thing in 5E. I totally get the nays are coming from though. I just manage to slice through crunchy systems a little easier than the average gamer I guess.

I wouldn't assume it's because other gamers have trouble "managing crunch systems." My experience...and I assume at least some other gamers share it...is the discovery that crunch not only isn't what we love about RPGs, but that it detracts from it, in ways both overt and subtle.

 

[payn]

I wouldn't assume it's because other gamers have trouble "managing crunch systems." My experience...and I assume at least some other gamers share it...is the discovery that crunch not only isn't what we love about RPGs, but that it detracts from it, in ways both overt and subtle.

Sure, if you dont like it, you dont like it. Though, many complaints seem to be that it adds too much time to combat. I get that very much. Ive seen some players just bog down on things that are a breeze for me. I imagine if I spent a significant amount of brain power on mechanics it would bug me as I also like moving the plot along and engaging in RP during sessions. I've hit that very limit a few times myself, WM isnt there for me. YMMV

 

[Bill Zebub]

Sure, if you dont like it, you dont like it. Though, many complaints seem to be that it adds too much time to combat. I get that very much. Ive seen some players just bog down on things that are a breeze for me. I imagine if I spent a significant amount of brain power on mechanics it would bug me as I also like moving the plot along and engaging in RP during sessions. I've hit that very limit a few times myself, WM isnt there for me. YMMV

You still seem to be suggesting that it's matter of intelligence, not preference, even if you're not using those exact words. As if everybody would enjoy the richer simulationism if only it wouldn't require any attention. And that's just not true.

I'll say that specifically regarding Weapon Mastery, one of my major criticisms is that it makes one's weapon a choice to be optimized mechanically, rather than a roleplaying decision. "I want to play a dark knight who uses a flail with a massive, spiked iron ball on the end." "Yeah, you shouldn't do that...weapon mastery for flails sucks."

 

[Mistwell]

Getting it all automated in Foundry has helped a lot. Now they're cool. Like spells.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Getting it all automated in Foundry has helped a lot. Now they're cool. Like spells.

Great example. That doesn't make me loathe it any less.

As an illustrative counter-example, I don't love the way that complex mishap tables (in games that have them) slow down game play, but I do like the impact they have on the flavor of the game play. If that were built into VTTs I would want more of them.

 

[Mistwell]

Great example. That doesn't make me loathe it any less.

As an illustrative counter-example, I don't love the way that complex mishap tables (in games that have them) slow down game play, but I do like the impact they have on the flavor of the game play. If that were built into VTTs I would want more of them.

That's totally fair. Having yet to play 2024 in-person, and playing it only on Foundry and Talespire so far, surely biases my view on some things.

 

[CleverNickName]

I'm not a fan. I like maybe two of them in total, with the rest being too cumbersome or immersion-breaking for my taste.

I'd be more likely to implement the one's I like as magic weapon abilities. "This is the Sword of Xkdghesbykll. It's a longsword +1 and while attuned to this weapon you can (insert ability here)."

 

[payn]

You still seem to be suggesting that it's matter of intelligence, not preference, even if you're not using those exact words. As if everybody would enjoy the richer simulationism if only it wouldn't require any attention. And that's just not true.

I've made accounts for both folks who simply dislike it, and folks who think it takes too much time. All im saying is it doesnt add any noticeable time for me and that ive seen this across many different games.

I'll say that specifically regarding Weapon Mastery, one of my major criticisms is that it makes one's weapon a choice to be optimized mechanically, rather than a roleplaying decision. "I want to play a dark knight who uses a flail with a massive, spiked iron ball on the end." "Yeah, you shouldn't do that...weapon mastery for flails sucks."

This is very understandable to me, and a better criticism than its too time consuming.