Weapon Speed

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

First off, I admit that our group never used the Weapon Speed in AD&D.

Now that I've revealed that, I'm wondering if there is a good way and a good reason to incorporate Weapon Speed into the 3.5 d20 system.

Can someone please help?

Thank you.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

OK. I got out my old AD&D books to have a look. There's a lot of rules that we never used in our group.

Here's what I'm thinking. Rather than change the whole system, I'm considering adding feats that would allow characters to take advantage of Weapon Speed. For simplification, I'm thinking of reducing the complex numbers given in the AD&D rules into three speed categories (maybe four).

Light One-Handed: capable of two bonus attacks per round at the character's highest attack bonus, but all attacks that round suffer a -2 penalty. This is a full round action.

One-Handed: capable of one bonus attack per round at the character's highest attack bonus, but all attacks that round suffer a -2 penalty. This is a full-round action.

Two-Handed: Not capable of being used faster.​

That's what I'm thinking.

Any thoughts?

I don't have the rough drafts of the feat write-ups done, yet. But, I'm considering using the Rapid Shot feet as a guide. Looking for input. Thanks in advance.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

You seem to be doing okay so far. Basically there are two paths to do this, the simplified version, or wholesale redesign of the combat system. Personally I prefer your version, wholesale redesigns can get tedious to work through fully.

Mechanically, I agree with the three or four speed categories but I would probably just call them Slow, Normal, and Fast. Then group the weapons as I thought appropriate into one of the categories rather than tying it to size. Maybe add a bonus or penalty to AC based on which group a weapon was in.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Thanks.

I'll probably review and compare the AD&D tables on weapon speed with the size and weight categories of 3.5 and come up with a list for each category.

The feats are likely to be weapon specific (like weapon focus), but I may incoporate related weapons from the same groups like in Unearthed Arcana.

Thanks, again.

 

[AnonymousOne]

This might make TWF a little more interesting. Assuming you could use the weapon speed with TWF. Though it might turn into the Monk's Flurry of Misses.

So let's say we have a Rogue with BAB +10/+5

Normal TWF (assuming offhand or both weapons are light)
+8/+8/+3/+3

Speed TWF (assuming offhand is light)
+6/+6/+6/+6/+6

Speed TWF (assuming both weapons are light)
+6/+6/+6/+6/+6/+6

 

[XCorvis]

First off, I admit that our group never used the Weapon Speed in AD&D.

Now that I've revealed that, I'm wondering if there is a good way and a good reason to incorporate Weapon Speed into the 3.5 d20 system.

Can someone please help?

Thank you.

Why do you want to add weapon speed? Do you want people to put more thought into which weapons to use and make them more distinct? Do you want to make certain weapons more powerful than they are currently? What's your goal?

When I first saw weapon speed, I imagined that there would be something like 3 speed categories, and they would affect your initiative and nothing else. That's what 2nd Ed speed did, IIRC. Thing is, that doesn't add a lot to the game except complexity. Rogues take faster weapons (which are already the weapons they have proficiency with, so no real change there), and no one else cares.

I'm not sure how additional attacks fit in from a balance perspective, but it's probably similar to TWF/Flurry and not too bad.

 

[Slapzilla]

Oy, please not another chart to reference or rule to bog down the flow with. If it adds to the fun, then of course jump in. One of the many things I hated about 2nd ed. was the charts and charts and charts. Keep it lean.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

This might make TWF a little more interesting. Assuming you could use the weapon speed with TWF. Though it might turn into the Monk's Flurry of Misses.

So let's say we have a Rogue with BAB +10/+5

Normal TWF (assuming offhand or both weapons are light)
+8/+8/+3/+3

Speed TWF (assuming offhand is light)
+6/+6/+6/+6/+6

Speed TWF (assuming both weapons are light)
+6/+6/+6/+6/+6/+6

Yes. I'm planning on letting it work with two weapon fighting.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Why do you want to add weapon speed? Do you want people to put more thought into which weapons to use and make them more distinct? Do you want to make certain weapons more powerful than they are currently? What's your goal?

I want players to put more thought into why their characters choose certain weapons. I want there to be a difference between weapons other than damage and damage type.

My goal is to eliminate all fighters in my group from taking either the two-handed or bastard sword. I want the guy with the short sword to be scarry, too.

When I first saw weapon speed, I imagined that there would be something like 3 speed categories, and they would affect your initiative and nothing else. That's what 2nd Ed speed did, IIRC. Thing is, that doesn't add a lot to the game except complexity. Rogues take faster weapons (which are already the weapons they have proficiency with, so no real change there), and no one else cares.

Yeah. I didn't play much second edition. I have the books, but I haven't looked at the 2nd edition rules for weapon speed. I think feats are the way to go because it only adds the complexity to those that want it.

I'm not sure how additional attacks fit in from a balance perspective, but it's probably similar to TWF/Flurry and not too bad.

I agree. And, since the damage doesn't scale like the monk's, it's probably less powerful.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Oy, please not another chart to reference or rule to bog down the flow with. If it adds to the fun, then of course jump in. One of the many things I hated about 2nd ed. was the charts and charts and charts. Keep it lean.

Our group is actually going back toward using some charts.

I'm taking base attack bonus off their character sheets along with their base saves. I'll have the numbers as a DM reference chart, but they won't be keeping track of it. I've also revised the skill system to simplify it from the player's perspective. It's feat based and references a chart (DM's eyes only).

So, yes, I've got a few charts. But, I don't normally use a DM's screen. I generally memorize rules. But, charts don't slow me down that much.