weapons breaking when they hit walls

trentonjoe

Explorer
I posted this in the Rules forum and it seems there are no core rules for this.

I think there should be. ANy suggestions?

IF a PC tries to break through a wall of stone with a weapon are there rules for doing damage to the weapon?

For example, a wall of stone conjured by a 9th level mage has 30 hit points and a hardness of 8. A Pc could break through this with an axe (or sword or mace) with a dozen or so swings if he/she has a decent enough strength and roll well. Would such actions damage their weapon?

Does it matter if it is a bludgeoning, or slashing weapon?

Thanks in advance.
 

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I agree with you... it seems ridiculous that you can hack through a reinforced door with your sword without blunting it, nicking it, breaking it...

...but I suck at making up rules.
 

How about when you attack an object (like a stone wall) the weapon takes the hardness of the wall in damage, double that if you roll a 1.

Of course, you apply the hardness of the weapon as well. So a good sword should take damage, though a rusty old one might shatter.

And maybe Improved Sunder should add a 'doubles the effective hardness of your weapon' since the feat means extra training in attacking objects, and it would be sad if the sunder-master kept breaking his sword-breaker
 
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Actually there are some basic rules that can be extrapolated to make this seem logical. (p.135 PHB)

* "Ineffective Weapons: The DM may determine that certain weapons just cant deal damage effectively to certain objects. For example, you will have a hard time chopping down a door by shooting arrows at it, or cutting a rope with a club."

* "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks: The DM may rule that certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. For example its easy to light a curtain on fire or rip a scroll."

There is the foundation. Now to make it more mechanical.

* Object must have a higher Hardness than the object to be effective. Thus a wooden club is not going to bash through stone.

* The weapon must logially be effective against the object it is trying to harm.
Case Specific: Slashing weapons will be more ineffective against a Stone Wall. Bludgeoning weapons will be most effective, while SOME piercing weapons will be effective while others wont (ie: Pick).

Damaging the Object:
* Hardness = Object's DR (Wall has DR 8/-) Any damage done by the weapon (per attack) is applied with a -8 penalty. Any damage remaining is done to the wall.
* Effective Weapon: DR remains the same
* Average Effect Weapon: +1 Object DR
* Less Effective Weapon: +2 Object DR
* Ineffective Weapon: No chance of damage


Damaging the Weapon:
* Hardness = Weapon's DR (Steel has DR 10/-)
* To be fair and logical, the weapon is also an object meeting the same "immovable force" that is is dealing to the other object. Thus, any damage done by the weapon (per attack) to an object is applied with a -10 penalty. Any damage remaining is done to the weapon.
* Effective Weapon: +1 Weapon DR
* Average Effect Weapon: No change to Weapon DR
* Less Effective Weapon: -1 Weapon DR
* Ineffective Weapon: -2 Weapon DR
* NOTE: Magical Weapons are immune unless the object has an equal or greater Enhancement bonus.


Example 1: Effective Weapon
Splug the Half-Orc with his 18 STR is wielding a Warhammer (H:10/HP:30) and tries to hack through a Wall of Stone (H:8/HP:30).
- No attack roll is necessary so Splug gets his free swing each round. Doing 1d8+6 damage (assume 2 handed).
- The Hammer is Bludgeoning and thus Effective against stone so the wall's Hardness (DR) remains 8. Thus Splug needs to do 9+ damage to damage the wall 1hp (doing a max of 6hp per attack).
- The Hammer, being Bludgeoning and thus effective at this task, is less at risk of being damaged. Its normal Hardness of 10 is increased to 11 when attacking the wall. Thus each time Splug does 12+ damage the weapon will take 1-3 points of damage, breaking down slower than the wall.
* Chance of weapon doing at least 1hp of damage to the wall is 35.7%.
* Chance of weapon being damaged is 14.3%.


Example 2: Less Effective Weapon
Splug the Half-Orc with his 18 STR is wielding a Battle Axe (H:10/HP:30) and tries to hack through a Wall of Stone (H:8/HP:30).
- No attack roll is necessary so Splug gets his free swing each round. Doing 1d8+6 damage (assume 2 handed).
- The Axe is Slashing and thus Less Effective against stone so the wall's Hardness (DR) increases to 10. Thus Splug needs to do 11+ damage to damage the wall even 1hp (doing a max of 4hp per attack).
- The Axe, being slashing and thus less effective at this task, is more at risk of being damaged. Its normal Hardness of 10 is reduced to 9 when attacking the wall. Thus each time Splug does 10+ damage the weapon will take 1-5 points of damage, breaking down faster than the wall.
* Chance of weapon doing at least 1hp of damage to the wall is 21.4%.
* Chance of weapon being damaged is 28.6%.


This gives players a fair chance to do heroic actions like breaking through a wall/door, but also adding some reality to the effect on the weapons being used. Comments?
 
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Wow! Thanks, Khaalis! That was a little more than I expected.

It looks great (albeit a little confusing) on paper. I will test it out in my game next week. I'll let you know what happens.
 

Its a little bit of math but I think its worth it if you want at least a little bit of reality to play into the equation. Its not perfect by any means but its better than nothing, and its a set rule that wont change from time to time. Nothing players hate more than inconsistant rules.
 

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