Weapons of Legacy

[Deuce Traveler]

Like the Knight class in PHB2, I find Weapons of Legacy to be worthwhile, but broken and in desperate need of tweaking if you want to implement them into your game.

First, I would get rid of the penalties and just go spending gold and with a quest or story-driven system to unlock the abilities of the weapon. Then I would be very careful as a DM to not bump the weapon's power up too fast, but instead to allow it to advance at the same rate that other characters are finding increasingly powerful weapons of their own. For instance, if the fighter wielding a +1 longsword suddenly finds a +2 bastard sword, then the cleric with the WOL +1 heavy mace suddenly finds his weapon increasing in power during a critical moment when he is face-to-face with the most recent BBEG. His WOL now awakens further and becomes a +2 heavy mace or a +1 undead bane heavy mace.

There are no penalties required, because the weapon is gaining power as the character levels, but not too much power. Also, maybe some minor abilities can get unlocked if the character spends a ton of cash to research the item, like the ability to cast light on the head of the mace three times a day as a 3rd level caster.

Basically, the WOL book should be used as a source of ideas, but the GM should really tweak the rules to his campaign. As a player, I would not be willing to take most of the penalties for the items listed as is. By using a WOL, however, the GM makes an item that is not just a scribble on a character sheet, but instead creates an object with a history and personality all of its own.

 

[MerricB]

A 20th-level Legacy Item has about 200,000 gp worth of abilities, costs about 60,000 gp in gold, and has a bunch of penalties that make up the other 140,000 gp.

What Weapons of Legacy made very clear to me is that magic items in D&D don't really get good until 11th+ level. Seriously, if you look at the wealth guidelines and magic item costs pre-MIC, you don't have much in the way of magic items.

Personally, I think WoLs are a good deal for most of their existence. They tend to break down at the highest level as the PCs should have a much better item at that level.

The caster items are a much better deal than the melee items, as the Caster Level penalty can be overcome by the Practiced Spellcaster feat. The *big* problem is the penalty to saves, which are undervalued. Save penalties are almost impossible to make up.

Cheers!

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I'd've been a lot more impressed if the type had been the same size as it was in the other supplements, instead of larger.

Brad

 

[Felon]

Actually, no, they're not supposed to just be "powerful." The point of WoL is to have an item that grows powerful as you do rather than selling one weapon just to wield the shiny new one you found, which seems rather dry.

Selling WoL's as items that save you time, money, and XP is pretty dry.

"Powerful" is dry? Sorry, power is always kinda juicy.

 

[MerricB]

Selling WoL's as items that save you time, money, and XP is pretty dry.

"Powerful" is dry? Sorry, power is always kinda juicy.

Yeah. Power is nice. I think WoL should be more aggressive in their power; they're balanced as it stands, but the balance fails at high levels, and they don't have that "kick" to them.

Cheers!

 

[Felon]

A 20th-level Legacy Item has about 200,000 gp worth of abilities, costs about 60,000 gp in gold, and has a bunch of penalties that make up the other 140,000 gp.

Your assessment is pretty fair, but it should be noted that with the canned WoLs, a lot of that 200 large is just padding and fluff. In this respect D&D is a lot like real life. 60k spent on line-item purchases can often get you more than 200k spent on a bloated package full of stuff you don't need or desire.

(heck, Merric, that's especially true of buying D&D minis on eBay these days hehe)

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Breaking down another item, Caput Mortuum

Ends up a +5 unholy vicious wounding scythe that casts unseen servant at will.
Its got a -1 to hit (making it effectively a +4 unholy vicious wounding scythe) that costs you an 8th level spell slot and 12 HP.

Thats the equivalent of a +9 weapon (162,000) for 51,700. An 8th level pearl of power costs 64,000 (total 115,700). So a party without a crafter saves 46,300 for 12hp and a -1 to hit with other weapons. IMO thats a pretty decent trade, or at least close enough to be worth considering. Balanced more or less.

If the party has crafters with arms and armor and wondrous items, they could make the item for 81,000 (saving 29300). They cant even craft the pearl themselves to break even.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I am starting to get the impression that this is a failure of a product.

Depends on how you look at it.

I'd love to use it, but haven't had a game since well before it was released. At first, I was put off by the penalties associated with most of the items, especially the penalties to saves and BAB. But the more I look at them, the more it seems that the penalties are made up for with the bonuses and abilities. Plus, the penalties make it clear a character has to work for the powers of the item, which is a very interesting aspect. I get the feeling that in actual play, legacy items are well worth the hassle, but again, I admit I don't have any practical experience with the system. I do think that some of the powers could be boosted a bit more, especially when BAB or saves are penalized.

 

[Felon]

Breaking down another item, Caput Mortuum

Ends up a +5 unholy vicious wounding scythe that casts unseen servant at will.
Its got a -1 to hit (making it effectively a +4 unholy vicious wounding scythe) that costs you an 8th level spell slot and 12 HP.

Thats the equivalent of a +9 weapon (162,000) for 51,700. An 8th level pearl of power costs 64,000 (total 115,700). So a party without a crafter saves 46,300 for 12hp and a -1 to hit with other weapons. IMO thats a pretty decent trade, or at least close enough to be worth considering. Balanced more or less.

If the party has crafters with arms and armor and wondrous items, they could make the item for 81,000 (saving 29300). They cant even craft the pearl themselves to break even.

Aha, good eye. You pulled out the one canned WoL with the least amount of bloat. Other than the unseen servant ability, all it does is get more potent bonuses and enhancements.

Yet it got a lot of slack with regards to penalties. It doesn't even inflict a caster level hit.

 

[MerricB]

Your assessment is pretty fair, but it should be noted that with the canned WoLs, a lot of that 200 large is just padding and fluff. In this respect D&D is a lot like real life. 60k spent on line-item purchases can often get you more than 200k spent on a bloated package full of stuff you don't need or desire.

Yeah, absolutely. The canned items should be pushing the boundaries... but mostly, they don't. In fact, most of them are rather dumb.

I've had 10 or so legacy items in my games, and they've worked moderately well for the most part, but they're pretty much all self-created.

See the Staff of Power legacy item for one that is better than most of the rest.

Cheers!