Well that didn't take long, wizard has been shelved.

[SSquirrel]

Could have sworn I posted in this thread earlier. My wizard has been lots of fun. Dimension Door to appear behind 2 bloodied bad guys, Thunderwave them to oblivion. Someone else in my group described the shadow hounds as having their shadowy form dissipated by the blast. I also get to say "ok well, Magic Missle to the face" (not really a called shot, just the geenral principle )

 

[Anthony Jackson]

I don't think the 4.0 wizard is unduly weak, but it certainly isn't the 3.0 wizard.

Thunderwave is mostly an 'oh ' spell; if you need to cast it, there's probably something wrong. Against kobolds, ray of frost is a pretty good spell.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I don't think the 4.0 wizard is unduly weak, but it certainly isn't the 3.0 wizard.

At 1st level he seems to have considerably more magical power (and staying power)!

From 5th level onwards... not so much

 

[DracoSuave]

That's from Dragon Mag, right?

If so: Please keep in mind that's not "core", and not accepted by many DMs. Me, for instance.

It's legal enough for the RPGA.

But regardless, the point still stands that doubling up on the same defense in your at-wills is weak.

Good holy lord, Thunderwave and Ray of Frost are not the same freaking power. You have two freaking at wills and if you choose both of these, both being the heaviest control and lowest damage/range you will be hitting fortitude and only fortitude.

Which is why I suggest you don't. Because that's setting yourself up to be gimped in the very brute fights you mentioned. You can -choose- not to be gimped for those fights, and prepared for a more all-rouned offensive. Or, you can -choose- to be gimped for those fights, forgetting that barring the spending of an action point, you can only use one at-will a round anyways. So there's no point c-c-c-comboing them up, and instead looking for combos with your heavier hitting powers, so your action points are used for the most awesome.

I'd suggest Scorching Burst and Ray of Frost, or Thunderwave and Scorching Burst, or Thunderwave and Magic Missle, or Thunderwave and Cloud of Daggers. I would NOT suggest Ray of Frost and Thunderwave because of the defense gimpery that'll hurt you in the long term. If you're human, then you can go Tunderwave, Ray of Frost, and third power of your choice, and that's all kosher. But if you're not, you're not so hard up for control that you -need- both Thunderwave AND Ray of Frost. Pick one, or the other.

A decent build you can do from the start is a Human Wizard, go
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 10
Staff of Defense
Feats: Action Surge; Improved Initiative
At Wills: Thunderwave, Cloud of Daggers, Ray of Frost
Encounter: Icy Terrain
Daily: Flaming Sphere, Sleep

A Staff of Winter will go a long way to keeping you safe. Automatically immobing enemies around you once per day without an attack roll is a decent thing to have. Later, a Thunderwave Staff is a great combo with Thunderwave (who knew?) and can turn it, once per day, into a damage powerhouse. Once you get to the vaulted 30th level, your wisdom will be at a respectable 23, 25 if you go Demigod, which will mean that Daily Thunderwave Staff hit will make that Thunderwave a 8d6 blast that knocks them prone.

 

[Plane Sailing]

It's legal enough for the RPGA.

Not really relevant to the current discussion though. Fact is, for many (most?) DMs they want to stick with the Core rulebooks and nothing else - especially in this settling down period.

Stuff from Dragon (and other books) is always worth mentioning as an option for those that like to use additional sources of course - but none of it has any 'authority' in other peoples games

Cheers

 

[Mengu]

Did someone cast Sarcastic Ambush in here? (I mean all of you, in specific.)

Yeah, stop that.

Could have sworn I posted in this thread earlier.

With all the wizard threads it's hard to keep track. Yes they are good, no they are terrible, oh wait that means they must be balanced.

Honestly it's all in the eyes of the player. You don't like Wizard or Warlock, don't play them. I don't think flinging dirt at the arcane classes is going to make them any better or worse. As DM, I have no problem making each class have their shining moments. The tiefling wizard is quite extatic when he catches multiple Mummy Guardians in Fire Bursts, and Scorching Bursts.

 

[DracoSuave]

Not really relevant to the current discussion though. Fact is, for many (most?) DMs they want to stick with the Core rulebooks and nothing else - especially in this settling down period.

Stuff from Dragon (and other books) is always worth mentioning as an option for those that like to use additional sources of course - but none of it has any 'authority' in other peoples games

Cheers

Given that such things are a first-party source tho, I wouldn't call them entirely -irrelevant- either, especially given the way D&D4th is designed to better incorporate such extra sources. It's a tournament legal suggestion, and therefore it's relevance to character builds is up to the individuals involved. The suggestion itself, however, is entirely relevant.

 

[Goumindong]

Which is why I suggest you don't

That is why its a shame, because you don't take it. Good lord try and keep up.

Here is a nice little analogy

Me: Oh man, it would be nice if axes didn't totally suck compared to hammers or Hammers got Berserker weapons
You: No it would not, use a Shield
Me: Yes, but I want to use an big two handed Axe
You: Yea, but you can use a shield!
Me: *Scanners*[NSFW] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA"]head explodes[/ame]

edit: is there any way i can get this to NOT imbed? I kinda just want to link to it with descriptive text so you know what it is and not imbed it and its very annoying when everything i try for code either doesn't parse or imbeds.

 

[Nifft]

Honestly it's all in the eyes of the player. You don't like Wizard or Warlock, don't play them.

IMXP it's not just the player, it's the party as a whole. The same Wizard will shine in one party, and feel useless in another.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Keenath]

That is why its a shame, because you don't take it. Good lord try and keep up.

I don't think I'm following your point here.

Are you saying you wish either Thunderwave or Ray of Frost attacked something other than Fort? I mean, that really comes off as whining.

In any case, you aren't supposed to combo with yourself. You can't without using an action point if you're using these powers (since the slow only lasts until your next turn, short of using Orb of Imposition, and they'll be un-slowed by the time you can thunderwave).

You're better off comboing with your allies. Teamwork. Have somebody else drop Slow, and then you hit them with the wave. Takes less resources anyway!


And as mentioned before, if you're going to burn an action point you should probably use at LEAST an encounter power on it. Double at-wills is pretty second rate. Instead of whining that TW + RoF is a lousy strategy, how about Thunderwave to gather your enemies and then dropping Icy Terrain with an action point? Knocking prone is usually better than slowing for one round; they lose their entire move action instead of being limited to 2 squares, and the difficult terrain will limit them from getting very far if they give up their standard. Or you can slow them with RoF while you call up the Flaming Sphere so they can't get away from it.

There's a lot of better strategies than "RoF + Thunderwave", so I don't see why you're stuck on those two.