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Were people's expectations of "Modularity" set a little too high?

I've come across complaints about the modularity of D&D Next and I feel like the problem is, people have basically set their expectations way too high.
I think WotC did some of that expectation-setting.

For instance, in L&L:

"Game Design
The new system must create a mechanical and mathematical framework that the play experience of all editions of D&D can rest within. One player can create a 4th-Edition style character while another can build a 1st-Edition one. Complexity and individual experiences rest in the players' hands. That experience is more important than the specifics of the math..."

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (D&D Next Design Considerations)

I think the whole idea was to use bits and pieces of all those editions into the creation of D&D Next in order to give people the "feel" of these editions...
That's the impression I get, that 5e is trying to be a sort of Frankenstein-ed, expertly sewn together from severed pieces of past editions and animated by some, as yet unspecified, miraculous lighting-bolt.
 

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However, as you mentioned it... how does classes and races being sepparated concepts forbid BCMI playstyle in DDN, just to mention the first one? Especific rules from a edition will be left out, but that does not mean the playstyle is out too. You can make a game that feels very AD&D without using Thac0

"Playstyle" also includes campaign- and world-building, having races as classes cast a different image on demi-human races compared to humans. I can also imagine that some people may be fond of the "an elf is an elf" concept (note that I am not personally a fan of "races as classes" however!). Finally, at least some of those old races/classes were essentially gestalt classes: this could be a non-problem with good multiclassing rules, but just to make an example those who had fond memories of the Elf class of old, there was little support in 3ed.
 

I believe, the game, as it stands now, 2 years before finished, seems to be modular already.

The first draft looks quite different from the first. And still it does not look very different the same time.

I also believe, they are now adding modularity into the core. (slower healing) Maybe next time we get different hp to start. Maybe connected to the different hp recovery systems.

Really, even if they already have different modules, the playtests are real playtests. All with a different fokus.

The first was about the feel (Thus, monsters were mostly texts)
The second about encounter balance (Thus, monsters are only stat blocks)

So, you should mention in the feedback, if something really is not right for you. But you should be waiting for the second next iteration to get a response.
 

They aren't available in 5e, at least not yet. Suggestions that require DIY houserules should be avoided, because they are beyond the point. Everyone knows that you can fix anything with HR, but the point is that if you have to fix too much, why even bother with the entire edition?

I think anyone drawing conclusions about what play styles will or won't be achievable through 5e based on what isn't available yet is jumping the gun by at least a year. Remember that we just got rules for character creation within the last couple weeks, and even those are still largely incomplete (races and classes missing, minimal number of backgrounds and feats, incomplete class progressions).

I don't understand how anyone can really think that they have enough information to draw conclusions about how 'modular' the final game is going to be.
 

I think WotC did some of that expectation-setting.

For instance, in L&L:

"Game Design
The new system must create a mechanical and mathematical framework that the play experience of all editions of D&D can rest within. One player can create a 4th-Edition style character while another can build a 1st-Edition one. Complexity and individual experiences rest in the players' hands. That experience is more important than the specifics of the math..."

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (D&D Next Design Considerations)
I think a lot of folks did what you did here: mentally bolded that sentence and ignored the surrounding context.
 

They aren't available in 5e, at least not yet. Suggestions that require DIY houserules should be avoided, because they are beyond the point. Everyone knows that you can fix anything with HR, but the point is that if you have to fix too much, why even bother with the entire edition?
The point of 5e is to be easy to houserule. The modules are just official houserules. That's not just me saying it, that's Mike Mearls's definition of modularity. Slow healing started off as a houserule for packet 1, and now it's an official module in packet 2.
 

I think anyone drawing conclusions about what play styles will or won't be achievable through 5e based on what isn't available yet is jumping the gun by at least a year. Remember that we just got rules for character creation within the last couple weeks, and even those are still largely incomplete (races and classes missing, minimal number of backgrounds and feats, incomplete class progressions).

I don't understand how anyone can really think that they have enough information to draw conclusions about how 'modular' the final game is going to be.

I've pointing out myself in other threads, that it's not fair to judge the current 5e by what it is missing.

But "playstyles" is a tricky thing... it's not just something you can say "let's put this issue on hold, we'll come back and add support for playstyle XYZ next year". A playstyle is even quite hard to define (I hope however that they have already done that), but my concern is just that if you want to support a certain array of defined playstyles, you have to keep that in mind since day 1 of design, otherwise it's possible that the core rules takes a design direction that won't allow you later on.

I thought the example of "low-power" was quite simple, but there is a better example and that is low-complexity combat. In this case IMHO they took just the right path, starting with combat rules and action economy that are pretty simple. Tactical and narrative modules will build on that, and with this approach the game will support both low-complexity and high-complexity styles of running combat. Had they started with high-complexity, it would have been a mess later on, with the rules of combat already interconnected and balanced for high-complexity, to try and support a low-complexity version (try that starting from 3ed rules... it's not a job for the average DM).

Unless of course the OP is just right, and WotC intention is just to sprinkle "bits and pieces" of every edition so that anyone can say "oh look, this is like in my favourite edition, I'm sold". But they have to guess well which bits and pieces exactly define the feel of each edition.

The point of 5e is to be easy to houserule. The modules are just official houserules. That's not just me saying it, that's Mike Mearls's definition of modularity. Slow healing started off as a houserule for packet 1, and now it's an official module in packet 2.

There is quite a difference between a module i.e. official and playtested houserule which is presented and explained in the books, and a DIY houserule.

The reason why I (over)reacted in my previous post to the suggestion "remove races and add prebuilt racial classes" is that such thing is an example of something not really that simple to DIY, at least it requires time and experience. If I have to do that for 2-3 different areas of the game, I would probably be fine. More than that, and you start wondering why you pay for the books if the game you want to play needs that much DIY work.
 

You know, after reading this thread I need to correct my statement that they have no modularity yet. They do with backgrounds, specialties, etc. Granted, this is not what some really want, but it is a start. And I find it promising that they have these this early in the play test. It bodes well for future modules.

My 2cp.;)
 

I think a lot of folks did what you did here: mentally bolded that sentence and ignored the surrounding context.
OK, does this really sound that much different:

"Game Design
The new system must create a mechanical and mathematical framework that the play experience of all editions of D&D can rest within. .... Complexity and individual experiences rest in the players' hands. That experience is more important than the specifics of the math..."

We still have the play experience of /all/ editions, and the individual experience in the hands of the players. Modules that are nothing more than pre-made house rules for the DM to aren't exactly in the players' hands, are they?

"One player can create a 4th-Edition style character while another can build a 1st-Edition one."

Sums it up concisely, but the context is just saying the same thing. And, at this point, there's no sign of that particular bit of vaporware being delivered, FWIW.
 

While I largely agree that we're seeing the foundations laid now for lots of modularity later on, I do have to wonder how the balance of the rogue changes if the background system is ripped out?

They have a class ability called 'Skill Mastery', after all. And a large part of the point of a rogue scheme is that you get a second background. If there *are* no backgrounds, what do rogues get to compensate?
 

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