D&D 5E What’s So Great About Medieval Europe?

[cbwjm]

It may not be necessary but I do like to have predefined bad guys for the heroes to go out and fight so, why not orcs? This is what they're made for. Same with the various goblin races, ogres, and trolls and one of the best things about this is that when your players do run into a member of the race that doesn't act all bloodthirsty it makes it all the more memorable.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

It may not be necessary but I do like to have predefined bad guys for the heroes to go out and fight so, why not orcs? This is what they're made for. Same with the various goblin races, ogres, and trolls and one of the best things about this is that when your players do run into a member of the race that doesn't act all bloodthirsty it makes it all the more memorable.

A pretty massive chunk of the player base, especially new players but plenty of middling old players like me, will never be comfortably with sentient races that are also playable in some worlds being “kill without a second thought” monsters in other worlds.

Discussion of why would lead this thread even more quickly to being closed than it was heading earlier today, so I’ll just say, go check out the articles and threads linkedin the quickly-closed Orc thread if you are interested in why people feel the way they do.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

A pretty massive chunk of the player base, especially new players but plenty of middling old players like me, will never be comfortably with sentient races that are also playable in some worlds being “kill without a second thought” monsters in other worlds.

Discussion of why would lead this thread even more quickly to being closed than it was heading earlier today, so I’ll just say, go check out the articles and threads linkedin the quickly-closed Orc thread if you are interested in why people feel the way they do.

Mmmmmmmmmmm most new players? Eh. No. Most dont actually care. A higher percentage do than previous gens sure, but its still a minority who really give a damn. Loud vocal minority. Blah blah. Yada yada. You know the spiel.

And thats "most" new players "currently" while gen z is still a small part of "new players". So yeah. Some people care. Possibly the most of any period in d&d. Its still a minority that care enough to listen 2 seconds to anyone talk about the horrors of genocide upon the orcs. Boohoo. They originally are intended as cannon fodder for a beatemup game.

Gen z is very different than millenials. Millenials care the most. Gen z cares the least of all gens whos played d&d.

They are a tiny minority of new players compared to millenials but that will soon change. And gen z cares less than the original d&d player gen did. The overton window moves around. Not strictly in the same direction. No. Its not strictly getring less permissable. Talk to some median income parented gen zs. Maybe 5 to 15 percent of them care. Well. At least where i live. I grant nations differ.


Only adding this following part because i notice multiple places on this site get the racial nature of orcs completely wrong and im nipping it in the bud.


Also orcs are "twisted elves" in tolkein's work. Elves are inspired partially by certain european caucasian groups and certain european fey/spirits. Basically because elves are white, orcs are HORRIBLY (spiritually) MANGLED white people. Not mixed race (unless uruk. Then they are half elves. Shocker.). They are white people of an elvish variety who are super physically screwed up (in a non racial way) by magic and probably some inbreeding. Definitely magic though. Tolkein also specified orcs were capable of good but that morgoth and sauron's mystical influence on them was incredibly strong. In other words they are completely and totally just very screwed up elves who are mystically enslaved and this twisted their being.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Mmmmmmmmmmm most new players? Eh. No. Most dont actually care. A higher percentage do than previous gens sure, but its still a minority who really give a damn. Loud vocal minority. Blah blah. Yada yada. You know the spiel.

And thats "most" new players "currently" while gen z is still a small part of "new players". So yeah. Some people care. Possibly the most of any period in d&d. Its still a minority that care enough to listen 2 seconds to anyone talk about the horrors of genocide upon the orcs. Boohoo. They originally are intended as cannon fodder for a beatemup game.

Gen z is very different than millenials. Millenials care the most. Gen z cares the least of all gens whos played d&d.

They are a tiny minority of new players compared to millenials but that will soon change. And gen z cares less than the original d&d player gen did. The overton window moves around. Not strictly in the same direction. No. Its not strictly getring less permissable. Talk to some median income parented gen zs. Maybe 5 to 15 percent of them care. Well. At least where i live. I grant nations differ.


Only adding this following part because i notice multiple places on this site get the racial nature of orcs completely wrong and im nipping it in the bud.


Also orcs are "twisted elves" in tolkein's work. Elves are inspired partially by certain european caucasian groups and certain european fey/spirits. Basically because elves are white, orcs are HORRIBLY (spiritually) MANGLED white people. Not mixed race (unless uruk. Then they are half elves. Shocker.). They are white people of an elvish variety who are super physically screwed up (in a non racial way) by magic and probably some inbreeding. Definitely magic though. Tolkein also specified orcs were capable of good but that morgoth and sauron's mystical influence on them was incredibly strong. In other words they are completely and totally just very screwed up elves who are mystically enslaved and this twisted their being.

You’re laughably wrong about gen z, and Tolkien hasn’t define what an Orc is for a few decades, now.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I miss block.

 

[Zardnaar]

Orcs are basically there to be evil and get killed.

D&D is the wrong game for pacifists lol.

You don't need to kill every orc but it's the default expectation IMHO.

Replace Orc with Goblin, Bugbear, Kobold etc.

Change that expectation I don't think your edition will do very well.

 

[Minigiant]

Mmmmmmmmmmm most new players? Eh. No. Most dont actually care. A higher percentage do than previous gens sure, but its still a minority who really give a damn. Loud vocal minority. Blah blah. Yada yada. You know the spiel.

And thats "most" new players "currently" while gen z is still a small part of "new players". So yeah. Some people care. Possibly the most of any period in d&d. Its still a minority that care enough to listen 2 seconds to anyone talk about the horrors of genocide upon the orcs. Boohoo. They originally are intended as cannon fodder for a beatemup game.

Gen z is very different than millenials. Millenials care the most. Gen z cares the least of all gens whos played d&d.

They are a tiny minority of new players compared to millenials but that will soon change. And gen z cares less than the original d&d player gen did. The overton window moves around. Not strictly in the same direction. No. Its not strictly getring less permissable. Talk to some median income parented gen zs. Maybe 5 to 15 percent of them care. Well. At least where i live. I grant nations differ.

New players care. They just lack the money and stability to rival older generations in influence over the hobby. Because most of them are young.

Gen Z is a tiny minority of players because they are young and lack the buying power to influence design their way.

Much how Millennials would have started withAD&D and chaffed under the restrictions in their teens and early twenties. Then go homebrew crazy in 3e and 4e as they hit their late 20s and 30s.

I have a=one group of most gen z as a DM. Anecdotally they care and they think differently from other folk I played with.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Gen Z is a tiny minority of players because they are young and lack the buying power to influence design their way.

i was already saying that

 

[Minigiant]

i was already saying that

My point is it is the Millennials who grew up on console rpgs, MMORGs, anime, 90s cartoons, and literature complex factions.

Warcraft Orcs didn't go from Brutal monsters to Noble Tribals for no reason. "You can't blame them. They were demon possessed!!" Warcraft has so many factions and subfactions that you need a wiki to follow it.

D&D has been pulled kicking and screaming to new ideas to reach new audiences. In 5 years when the Gen Z player get money, D&D will be pulled to some new things.

Fighters will be able to flash step and Monster Girls will be an official race in 20 years, I tells ya. There's gonna be so many mage-warriors. Core base fighter will have to be broken to keep up, man. 6 attacks a turn.

 

[Mirtek]

My point is it is the Millennials who grew up on console rpgs, MMORGs, anime, 90s cartoons, and literature complex factions.

Warcraft Orcs didn't go from Brutal monsters to Noble Tribals for no reason. "You can't blame them. They were demon possessed!!" Warcraft has so many factions and subfactions that you need a wiki to follow it.

D&D has been pulled kicking and screaming to new ideas to reach new audiences. In 5 years when the Gen Z player get money, D&D will be pulled to some new things.

Fighters will be able to flash step and Monster Girls will be an official race in 20 years, I tells ya. There's gonna be so many mage-warriors. Core base fighter will have to be broken to keep up, man. 6 attacks a turn.

And yet WoW is filled to the brink with sentient races that are nothing but monsters to be killed. E.g. Murloks, Kobobls, Satyrs.

Well, the last are demonic in nature, but murlocs and kobolds are sentient, capable of speech, using manufactured tools, weapons and huts and yet exist only to be mercilessly cut down to had in various body parts for quest rewards.

Hooray for raising Orcs, Trolls and Tauren above the "kill on sight level", but there are still plenty of races that remain just that