D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Scars Unseen]

Wait, is that a change based on your system? Because Astral Constructs are formed from stuff from the Astral Plane (hence their name).

Well the astral plane - especially in the context of psionics - is the plane of thought. So you're basically saying that a psion's thought construct is constructed of thought stuff.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah but that just shows there is an external (ie, beyond the Prime Material Plane and your own mind/body) facet to Psionics. If Psionics doesn't work without access to the Astral Plane, then Psionics is...extraplanar? I don't think the cosmology supports it being the other way around, since you can encounter the remains of Dead Gods in the Astral Plane.

 

[Yaarel]

Wait, is that a change based on your system? Because Astral Constructs are formed from stuff from the Astral Plane (hence their name).

In 5e, the astral plane is a realm of pure thought, including its Wheel alignment domains. The physical forces and elements that exist in the material plane have no existence whatsoever in the astral plane.

To manifest a physical effect means it is no longer astral.

Inferably, when using the Planeshift spell to enter the astral plane, one is actually disintegrating ones own physical body, and entering the astral as a disembodied mind, whose virtual body is a thought construct.

 

[jgsugden]

Wait, is that a change based on your system? Because Astral Constructs are formed from stuff from the Astral Plane (hence their name).

The original lore of Astral Constructs is weaker than you remember. They are constructed from ecoplasm, and there are vague references to it originating in an Astral 'Medium', but not specifically the Astral Plane.

Regardless, in my world's lore, despite keeping the 'Astral' name for the power and the restulting construct, there is nothing inherently tied to the Astral Plane in psionics. There are powers that access the Astral, but those powers do so out of convenience, not out of an inherent bond specific between the Astral Plane and Psionics. There are, however, bonds from the psionic lore to the Far Realm, Ethereal, Shadowfell, Fey Wild and Hell (I have a singular hell plane with 9 Devil run territories and unending Demon controlled territories), but that is specific to my setting lore. In my setting, the Far Realm 'crashed' into the Known Universe, introducing chaos and Elder Gods. This turned some Devils into Demons, shattered the Prime to create the Ethereal, Shadowfell and Fey Wild, and did a few other wacky things. The Far Realm does not have weave based magic, so Psionic powers are very common there. When the Far Realm and the Known Universe collided, the presense of Psionics in the Known Universe grew dramatically (but is still relatively rare).

 

[Gradine]

 

[Yaarel]

I am going to reiterate: You're thinking of this differently than we did, and it is resulting in you missing a key point. Psionics should not be a paint job on magic. This was the core reason we diverged more and more from 3E designs - because they moved towards making it 'alternate magic' while we held true to it as distinct design space unique to psionics.

Heh, I am relieved that you recognize that 3e psionics is spellcasting with a paintjob.

3e psionics has many fans who like psionics as spellcasting. (A 5e spell point system that doesnt hurt the eyes is a worthy goal.)

With that in mind, using the 5e Psion for 3e spellcasting and using the 5e Mystic for 2e nonspell features, is an easy solution.

If metacreativity is conjuration, you don't have a good system that has meaningful design space.

I agree, a 5e psionic conjurer needs to be built from scratch.

At the least, we need a cantrip called "Metacreativity", that conjures objects out of force. The conjuration starts with minor effects appropriate to a cantrip and can use higher slots for more powerful effects.

5e lacks a Conjurer/Shaper/Summoner class, and a psionic version of this class might be worth a third 5e psionic class, or have it be a subclass for either Psion or Mystic.

From our persepctive, metacreativity has distinct elements and core approaches that differ from conjuration magic in fundamental ways. You can absolutely draw parallels to some elements of metacreativity and conjuration, but they do not feel the same, especially when the player and DM embrace the dynamic differences. Mechanically, stylistically, and lore wise - Metacreativity is different. As it was added in the 3E era, our designs of the Metacreative powers tend to be evolved considerably from the books.
For example, you can steal aspects from targets nearby to augment your Astral Constructs if you have lingering powers impacting those nearby.

For example, when you make an astral construct, it comes from you. Not from the weave, or a god, or some other external source.

Right. A psionic construct is made out of ones own telekinetic force.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Some people seem to want psionics based on pre-3e stuff. I don't think bringing back some ancient AD&D mechanics is even remotely realistic expectation. The overwhelming majority of the playerbase was not even born when those were printed, they don't miss or want that. What's next, bring back THAC0?

 

[James Gasik]

While it would be nice to inject some old school feel into Psionics, regardless of what we want, I don't think WotC is going to give us anything truly earthshattering here. While they can create new systems since they are gearing up for a new PHB, the odds don't seem good that we'll see anything well thought out anytime soon.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Some people seem to want psionics based on pre-3e stuff. I don't think bringing back some ancient AD&D mechanics is even remotely realistic expectation. The overwhelming majority of the playerbase was not even born when those were printed, they don't miss or want that. What's next, bring back THAC0?

I don't like the implication here that old things are inherently worse than newer ones. When you were born has no direct bearing on what you enjoy.

 

[Micah Sweet]

While it would be nice to inject some old school feel into Psionics, regardless of what we want, I don't think WotC is going to give us anything truly earthshattering here. While they can create new systems since they are gearing up for a new PHB, the odds don't seem good that we'll see anything well thought out anytime soon.

WotC isn’t going to give us anything more than they already have. Maybe a new subclass or two in the Dark Sun book, that's it.