D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Crimson Longinus]

It isn't complicated. You pick a power and you spend points to use it. That is not complicated.

You dont find value in different mechanics. A lot of people do. I do. I like the feeling of flexible powers instead of the rigid slot-casting system that we have for psionics, because it makes psionics have more texture and more interesting.

And it is not complicated. You routinely saying that

• Picking a discipline (OF WHICH YOU GET FOUR OVER 20 LEVELS)
• Spending points to use its power

Is complicated is absolutely insane, and I cannot take you seriously when you say this. If you think having to, every long rest, go over your 25 or so spells at 20th level as a druid or cleric, making decisions about how many spells of a certain level you pick in regards to how many spell slots you have is less complicated then looking at your list of powers and choosing one to spend a handful of points on, then you have absolutely no business making any commentary on what is and is not complicated.

It makes the game more complicated overall. All casters using the same mechanic obviously is less complicated than having a different magic system for each.

 

[Shardstone]

This is a very simple system to implement that doesn't add too much mechanical overhang.

It sounds like you want no new mechanics or systems at all. If that is your vision for D&D, then I'm not sure there's any conversation to be had. I believe in a streamlined and elegant D&D, but that doesn't mean you can't add new, likewise elegant systems to it.

Considering that this system would in theory only be added in a supplementary book or setting guide, making it entirely optional, there really is no grounds for debate between us. If people have to justify to you adding any new mechanics whatsoever, and if your response is the canned "any mechanics make the game more complicated overall" repeated to literally every single poster in this thread, then you aren't trying to have a discussion with us, you're trying to end the discussion with us.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

This is a very simple system to implement that doesn't add too much mechanical overhang.

It sounds like you want no new mechanics or systems at all. If that is your vision for D&D, then I'm not sure there's any conversation to be had. I believe in a streamlined and elegant D&D, but that doesn't mean you can't add new, likewise elegant systems to it.

Considering that this system would in theory only be added in a supplementary book or setting guide, making it entirely optional, there really is no grounds for debate between us. If people have to justify to you adding any new mechanics whatsoever, and if your response is the canned "any mechanics make the game more complicated overall" repeated to literally every single poster in this thread, then you aren't trying to have a discussion with us, you're trying to end the discussion with us.

Of course when adding new content you might to need to add new mechanics, but the first step should be to see to what extent you can utilise already existing mechanics and avoid adding things that just duplicate things that already exist. In 5E manifesting supernatural effects is handled via spells, so if you want to have a class that manifests supernatural effects you should use that framework. Same way that if we were adding a new class that fights with weapons, it should still utilise the already existing combat system instead of inventing some parallel system that works differently.

 

[Yaarel]

It isn't complicated. You pick a power and you spend points to use it. That is not complicated.

You dont find value in different mechanics. A lot of people do. I do. I like the feeling of flexible powers instead of the rigid slot-casting system that we have for psionics, because it makes psionics have more texture and more interesting.

And it is not complicated. You routinely saying that

• Picking a discipline (OF WHICH YOU GET FOUR OVER 20 LEVELS)
• Spending points to use its power

Is complicated is absolutely insane, and I cannot take you seriously when you say this. If you think having to, every long rest, go over your 25 or so spells at 20th level as a druid or cleric, making decisions about how many spells of a certain level you pick in regards to how many spell slots you have is less complicated then looking at your list of powers and choosing one to spend a handful of points on, then you have absolutely no business making any commentary on what is and is not complicated.

It is too complicated to balance with spell mechanics.

Also it feels like it would suffer from its symmetric design "grid filling".

 

[Shardstone]

It is too complicated to balance with spell mechanics.

Also it feels like it would suffer from its symmetric design "grid filling".

It isn't too complicated to balance with modern day spell mechanics.

What I'm describing is a monk who trades in martial ability for more utility. Making 48 utility spells, even if there is some overlap, is not too complicated to balance. It would require EFFORT, yes, but it is not too complicated. You have to prove that it is too complicated to do (both you and Crimson), because you guys keep making this assertion that it is without any proof.

 

[Yaarel]

It isn't too complicated to balance with modern day spell mechanics.

What I'm describing is a monk who trades in martial ability for more utility. Making 48 utility spells, even if there is some overlap, is not too complicated to balance. It would require EFFORT, yes, but it is not too complicated. You have to prove that it is too complicated to do (both you and Crimson), because you guys keep making this assertion that it is without any proof.

I and others consider the mechanics of the Monk horrible and subpar compared to other classes.

In fact the attempt to balance the weird Monk mechanics failed.

Heh, the Monk is exhibit A, as a cautionary tale to never implement your proposal.

LOL, I will stick with my "overpowered" spellcasters for my psionics, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Shardstone]

I and others consider the mechanics of the Monk horrible and subpar compared to other classes.

In fact the attempt to balance the weird Monk mechanics failed.

Heh, the Monk is exhibit A, as a cautionary tale to never implement your proposal.

LOL, I will stick with my "overpowered" spellcasters for my psionics, thankyouverymuch.

No one is saying your spellcasters are overpowered with psionics. No idea where you pulled that one from.

The monk has issues, but it is not a failed designed. Your inability to see things outside of a black/white paradigm holds back your otherwise clear intellect and talent for game design.

 

[Yaarel]

No one is saying your spellcasters are overpowered with psionics. No idea where you pulled that one from.

The monk has issues, but it is not a failed designed. Your inability to see things outside of a black/white paradigm holds back your otherwise clear intellect and talent for game design.

Game mechanics are like an engine. One doesnt throw wrenches into a running engine.

(Heh, I appreciate the flattery.)

 

[Yaarel]

Consider the Warlock. I consider it to be a successful class. It is a full caster but has irregular mechanics for casting spells. Fine, but there are problems because of this. Its multiclassing is awkward, its short rest rhythm is awkward, and who knows what will happen to it if short rests no longer exist. Irregular mechanics create mechanical problems.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's too complicated and more importantly doesn't really add much of value. There already is a mechanic for handling manifesting supernatural powers, it's called spells. If you want 48 powers, then first see which of these (or close) already exist as spells. Then create spells for those few that already do not exist. Then give this list of 48 spells to your psion class, they cast them using normal 5e magic mechanics.

I am not opposed to adding some new spells or even a new class. But inventing some parallel magic system absolutely is making things too complicated.

Have you considered...not using any new psionics system that might get added and letting other people have their fun? Seems like you have what you want already.