D&D General What’s The Big Deal About Psionics?

[Crimson Longinus]

You missing the point.

No, you're missing my point. See:

Doesn't matter how much Imogen "feels" like a psion if Imogen cannot

No. You're just listing again some specific mechanical minutiae you want. Why should we care about any of that? Imogen feels like a psion, end of story. She may not feel exactly the sort of psion you personally envision, but so what?

 

[Yaarel]

@Minigiant and others

What are some of the things that you want to see psionic options do, storywise?

I have less sympathy for mechanical complexity. But I do care about narrative.

 

[Yaarel]

• Mage hand can't be used offensivvely

Floating an unintended object or willing creature, feels very different from assaulting a target with thrust or force crush. These feel like different spells/powers.

• Telekinesis can't be used offensively

Similar.

• Telekinesis is a 5th level spell so you can't get it until level 9

Agreed. Slot 5 is crap. We need a cantrip or slot 1 spell/power that can increase target size with higher slots/points.

• Telepathic Bond is a 5th level spell so you can't get it until level 9 so AM Sorcerer needed a subclass feature get it early.

Agreed. Full-on angel Telepathy is worth about slot 2. And a telepath specialist should have it right out the gate as a class feature at level 1.

 

[Minigiant]

No, you're missing my point. See:


No. You're just listing again some specific mechanical minutiae you want. Why should we care about any of that? Imogen feels like a psion, end of story. She may not feel exactly the sort of psion you personally envision, but so what?

She feels like a psion to you.
She isn't a psion because she doesn't have most of the abilities of psions from multiple editions becuse they don't existin 5e.

It's like saying attacking with flame blade 4 times is the same a fireball and calling a fighter a wizard if spells didn't exist.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

She feels like a psion to you.

Yep. And I doubt that I'm alone in this.

She isn't a psion because she doesn't have most of the abilities of psions from multiple editions becuse they don't existin 5e.

Psionic abilities in different editions are all over the place. It doesn't matter. The game doesn't need to duplicate the exact function of some ancient edition most people don't even remember, it just needs to create the general concept in a way that is fun to play.

 

[Minigiant]

Psionic abilities in different editions are all over the place. It doesn't matter. The game doesn't need to duplicate the exact function of some ancient edition most people don't even remember, it just needs to create the general concept in a way that is fun to play.

The point is the option given doesn't create the general concept to a lot of fans as many of the traditional effects don't exist at the level and tiers many want to have fun in.

Can you even crush someone with telekinesis as a AM Sorcerer?
Can you mind over body give yourself super strength as an AM Sorcerer?

 

[James Gasik]

I would say that Imogen feels like one type of psychic. The concept involves several powers, such as more versatile telekinesis and telepathy, foresight, clairvoyance, object reading, astral projection, and an ever-lovin' Mind Crush. Now you can replicate these things with spells, but using spell slots to replicate what is, in effect, a magical ability that can be called upon at will and it's usage broken up throughout the day (as opposed to most spells, which are called upon in specific chunks of time, like, 1 round per level) doesn't feel like a talent.

So 1, versions of all these powers need to be available from 1st level (at an appropriate power level). 2, what powers you have need to be available as needed. 3, there needs to be cost, such as power points, to pay for these uses so they can be broken up in a way a spell cannot.

Then we'd have something that feels like a master of the mental arts.

EDIT: yes, I'm aware I called it a magical ability. To my mind, D&D has always treated anything supernatural as magical, so you know, calling psionics magic is no different than calling a wizard bending reality or a cleric calling for divine succor "magic". It's just expressed in a different way than your typical mystic arts, which involve invocations, incantations, and the trappings of ritual.

 

[Shardstone]

Eight psychic disciplines. Each discipline has:

• A bonus action stance that activates a planar ability.
• One base ability w/ no psi point cost. One base ability with a point cost.
• An additional psi-point fueled power at gained at levels 5/11/17 (these are 5E's combat increase levels).
• Psion class starts with one disciplines, gains another from their subclass, and another at 5th/9th level.

That's 48 powers with specialization forced.

That isn't broken. That isn't complicated. That isn't overwhelming. This is relatively easy to design and can be fit into any 5E game with this kind of set-up.

That's all it takes. This isn't complicated, this isn't broken, you keep the point flavor, the flexibility, etc, you can make 48 non-spell powers pretty easily, and it would be fun to use.

I really cannot comprehend why some of you think this is too much to add to 5E. It isn't. You give monsters the same powers. Seriously, its just a variant to replace a Mindflayer's "Psionic Spellcasting" with "Psychic Disciplines."

Can we please stop gaslighting psionics fans by telling them that this is too complicated. 8 categories of psychic power with 6 powers each is pretty easy to construct, even when spells take up so much space.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Eight psychic disciplines. Each power has:

• A bonus action stance that activates a planar ability.
• One base ability w/ no psi point cost. One base ability with a point cost.
• An additional psi-point fueled power at gained at levels 5/11/17 (these are 5E's combat increase levels).
• Psion class starts with one disciplines, gains another from their subclass, and another at 5th/9th level.

That's 48 powers with specialization forced.

That isn't broken. That isn't complicated. That isn't overwhelming. This is relatively easy to design and can be fit into any 5E game with this kind of set-up.

That's all it takes. This isn't complicated, this isn't broken, you keep the point flavor, the flexibility, etc, you can make 48 non-spell powers pretty easily, and it would be fun to use.

I really cannot comprehend why some of you think this is too much to add to 5E. It isn't. You give monsters the same powers. Seriously, its just a variant to replace a Mindflayer's "Psionic Spellcasting" with "Psychic Disciplines."

Can we please stop gaslighting psionics fans by telling them that this is too complicated. 8 categories of psychic power with 6 powers each is pretty easy to construct, even when spells take up so much space.

It's too complicated and more importantly doesn't really add much of value. There already is a mechanic for handling manifesting supernatural powers, it's called spells. If you want 48 powers, then first see which of these (or close) already exist as spells. Then create spells for those few that already do not exist. Then give this list of 48 spells to your psion class, they cast them using normal 5e magic mechanics.

I am not opposed to adding some new spells or even a new class. But inventing some parallel magic system absolutely is making things too complicated.

 

[Shardstone]

It's too complicated and more importantly doesn't really add much of value. There already is a mechanic for handling manifesting supernatural powers, it's called spells. If you want 48 powers, then first see which of these (or close) already exist as spells. Then create spells for those few that already do not exist. Then give this list of 48 spells to your psion class, they cast them using normal 5e magic mechanics.

I am not opposed to adding some new spells or even a new class. But inventing some parallel magic system absolutely is making things too complicated.

It isn't complicated. You pick a power and you spend points to use it. That is not complicated.

You dont find value in different mechanics. A lot of people do. I do. I like the feeling of flexible powers instead of the rigid slot-casting system that we have for psionics, because it makes psionics have more texture and more interesting.

And it is not complicated. You routinely saying that

• Picking a discipline (OF WHICH YOU GET FOUR OVER 20 LEVELS)
• Spending points to use its power

Is complicated is absolutely insane, and I cannot take you seriously when you say this. If you think having to, every long rest, go over your 25 or so spells at 20th level as a druid or cleric, making decisions about how many spells of a certain level you pick in regards to how many spell slots you have is less complicated then looking at your list of powers and choosing one to spend a handful of points on, then you have absolutely no business making any commentary on what is and is not complicated.