What’s the most complex RPG out there?

[Aldarc]

Maybe we should consider what dimensions or axes of complexity exist for game systems rather than thinking of it in terms of a simple linear spectrum.

 

[Nagol]

What version of C&S are you referring to. I would argue that 4th Edition The Rebirth is more accessible than previous editions.

Red book (first edition).

 

[Stephen A Turner]

Red book (first edition).

I would agree. 4th ed is free on drivethrurpg. Might be worth a look.

 

[Obryn]

Oh man, from my experience, Dangerous Journeys/Mythus by a country mile. I ran it in high school, and frankly have no idea how.

I saw Powers and Perils upthread - I wrote a review on that a few years ago, where I had a blast figuring it out. And yeah, it's complex, but it's also really neat and not so bad outside of chargen. (It's also historically interesting since it's kind of a failed branch of the rpg tree with no clear descendents or even very clear precedents.)

 

[Kobold Boots]

Oh man, from my experience, Dangerous Journeys/Mythus by a country mile. I ran it in high school, and frankly have no idea how.

You get a +1 from me for this. When I ran it, I had to buy extra copies of the rules so the group could take it in. The players who loved unbalanced crunch (Full Wizard/Full Divine) dove in, but I really think that Gygax over did it.

I still use those books for source material though I wish a full treatment of Aerth was possible beyond where the books took it.

KB

 

[3catcircus]

I didn't find the original Twilight: 2000 overly complex, but that's likely because I came to it after running multiple Aftermath! campaigns. For a long time that was for me the standard for high complexity.

Years later I ran Twilight: 2013, which is probably the most complex game I've ever run. It has some clever ideas, but unfortunately they're buried in poor organization and unnecessarily complicated implementation. If you want to find out exactly which part of your opponent's face is caved in by the 5.56mm round from your highly-customized M4 variant, this is the game for you.

Twilight:2013's fatal flaw is just that the core rules are so poorly organized. Whether you like the campaign backstory or not, it should never have been the first section of the book. That they have 3 modular levels of complexity alliws you tailor it for casual players who know nothing about modern weapons all the way up to hardcore gun bunnies.

The basic mechanic is way cooler than d20 or d% systems and very elegant in how it handles varying degrees of success.

The damage/wounds system is the best I've ever seen at really providing a workable but not overly complex model of what would actually occur if someone were shot or stabbed.

While it could use some tweaks, the Twilight:2013 (and TW2K v2/v2.2) lifepath character creation system is outstanding. D&D and Pathfinder would do well to get away from class/level and adopt a similar system.

From what I recall, the TW:2013 core mechanics (The "Reflex" System) was going to be adapted to a fantasy setting, but I don't believe it ever happened.