What 5e got wrong

[Rya.Reisender]

Initiative doesn't have such a huge impact on your power that it needs to be spread over multiple stats.

STR, DEX, CON all have a global purpose in 5e that all classes benefit from, though STR's would be weight limit increase which hardly any DM enforces.

INT, WIS, CHA are a bit more problematic, because you really only need one of those three, depending on what kind of caster you are. It gets especially one-sided because hardly any DM enforces player behavior based on these stats (low INT char can still act smart).

 

[I'm A Banana]

Way to miss the point, nearly every responder in this thread. What I was talking about was the design mantra behind the stats, and not the specific mechanics of them.

Which design mantra is that?

Sorry, but nobody will ever convince me that having stats that are overtly unequal in usefulness makes any sense whatsoever.

The usefulness of stats is only as unequal as the individual DM/scenario makes them. So if strict equality in usefulness is something you appreciate, there are ways to get at that (4e's skill challenge model is not a bad starting point, since inclusivity of different skills and ability scores was often part of its philosophy). That's not an inevitable consequence of the six D&D scores.

Additionally, I'm unlikely to be convinced that int, wis, and cha aren't poorly hodgepodged conceptually and in need of a rethink.

I find they work to serve their purpose pretty decently, creating ways to represent a character that is to varying degrees intelligent, observant, and influential.

Fortunately, the DMG has advice if you'd like to make up new ability scores.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I think the six ability scores are solid conceptually, but I know I'm not the first person to point out that in 5E Intelligence could stand to be a little stronger.

 

[akr71]

Way to miss the point, nearly every responder in this thread. What I was talking about was the design mantra behind the stats, and not the specific mechanics of them.

If we missed the point, it is because you did a poor job of making it.

However, I will agree that the importance/utility of all 6 ability scores is unbalanced, but I'm ok with it and design characters accordingly.

I think the six ability scores are solid conceptually, but I know I'm not the first person to point out that in 5E Intelligence could stand to be a little stronger.

Yes that is a little mystifying to me too.

 

[Sacrosanct]

This pretty much happens already

Maybe at your table. By having initiative as DEX, I've seen other non-rogue classes put a higher score into DEX, when if it were based on the class main stat, then they wouldn't. Then again, I've always preferred, (and my group is similar) to play PCs based off of archetype and not driven off of mechanical optimization. That means my long time fighter Merdock has his second highest score in CHA, because he's a knight and leader of men. If every fighter has 18 STR and 16 CON, I find that boring and too predictable

 

[Sacrosanct]

The usefulness of stats is only as unequal as the individual DM/scenario makes them. .

This bears repeating. For example, a lot of people say INT is underpowered. This strikes me odd because we have a lot of puzzles and insight checks come up very often. So it really comes down to the DM style.

 

[hejtmane]

I could see an argument for Wisdom possibly being a factor in initiative and possibly even Strength, though I feel that is a real stretch. But it doesn't make any sense to connect initiative with Constitution, Intelligence and Charisma in my opinion.

We could argue dex, wisdom and Int if we want to not do everything

Dex is reaction

Wisdom because of experience and knowledge you gain advantages from seeing opening

Intelligence is so smart that you can see tactics opening etc

I can get not using all the stats but it be nice to have multiple stats that could effect initiative giving us a little more diversity

 

[OldSkoolRPG]

We could argue dex, wisdom and Int if we want to not do everything

Dex is reaction

Wisdom because of experience and knowledge you gain advantages from seeing opening

Intelligence is so smart that you can see tactics opening etc

I can get not using all the stats but it be nice to have multiple stats that could effect initiative giving us a little more diversity

I hadn't thought of intelligence contributing to initiative in that way. I can see that working, though I have no problem with the current system really. I just wouldn't want a "You use your main stat for init" type rule.

 

[hejtmane]

Maybe at your table. By having initiative as DEX, I've seen other non-rogue classes put a higher score into DEX, when if it were based on the class main stat, then they wouldn't. Then again, I've always preferred, (and my group is similar) to play PCs based off of archetype and not driven off of mechanical optimization. That means my long time fighter Merdock has his second highest score in CHA, because he's a knight and leader of men. If every fighter has 18 STR and 16 CON, I find that boring and too predictable

I embrace different even build ones less than optimal that fit concepts and encourage that even sub optimal races for builds. Then again that is rare among most players

 

[ccs]

I agree 100%

Also, if they had gone and changed ability scores (names and/or score thresh-holds), it wouldn't be doing such a good job at pulling people back to the game. I've read posts by many forum members, such as myself that have been away from gaming for many years. 5e is familiar yet stripped down, making it accessible.

Exactly. I'm looking to play D&D, not some other game that they just slapped it's logo on.
You know what you get when you change the system too much?
4e.
And we all know how that story ended.

Now you can do whatever the 9 Hells you want to the system via house rules for your own groups. And publishing books full of alternate systems is cool.
But the market pretty well expects a certain formula as far as the base game is concerned. Deviate from that at your own peril....