D&D 5E What are the cults actually doing in Princes of the Apocalypse?

[Tobold]

I am preparing a campaign based on Princes of the Apocalypse, using an abridged version of the Lost Mines of Phandelver as introduction. Having read at several places that "finding the missin delegation" isn't a great story hook, I was thinking of motivating my players with the far simpler "destroy the evil cults" hook.

However it appears to me that in the Princes of the Apocalypse the elemental evil cults are rather passive. They sit in their dungeons and wait for group of adventurers to kill them. Their evil deeds, like kidnapping people or killing each other, apparently all happened before the adventure even starts. During the adventure their actions seem to be scripted responses to player actions, e.g. the cult reprisals and retaliations, or the prophets moving.

So I was wondering what evil the cults would do in the various stages of the story if for some reason the players were inactive. Especially, what evil acts would the cults commit that would be visible to the players, and motivate them? I'd also like to put the players under a bit of stress, with several things going on at the same time. Basically I would like to create more of a living world with the cults as active adversaries, rather than just passively waiting for the players to act.

I am looking for suggestions, any ideas?

 

[KahlessNestor]

Take a look at what they did to Hillsfar in Adventure League. They destroyed most of the city with an elemental nuke.

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[Tales and Chronicles]

This is a problem I also have with the adventure. The Prophets also have great backstories on how they became the things they are now, but most of them wont have the chance to ''share'' this backround with the party unless you go for the classic ''evil guy speech'' before each fight. I also find their motivation kind weak; in Tyranny of Dragons, you can understand that a cult can worship a godess that will ''perhaps'' elevate them to something higher in the new world order once she takes control, but the evil elemental princes dont have this kind of desire of domination, they mostly just want to break stuff which, as a cultist, find nothing to my advantage in this relation.

 

[LordEntrails]

They are looking to build power and eventually (climatic fight) bring their Prince to the prime material plane.

Agreed that the AP doesn't do a good job of laying out what would happen without the PC's, but it's pretty easy to assume they will keep sniping at each other while collecting more power though worship, recruitment, and evil deeds. Then, when their ceremonies are ready, they will summon their prince.

The various princes are can be assumed to want to come to the prime material and either reek havoc or start a power base. You can read the FR wikia site to get older source info on what they are like.

 

[Eltab]

If the players did just enough to draw their attention, the elemental cults will seek revenge.

The cults might want to get "practice" before their masters are ready to enter the Material World; they could summon some lesser being ... which of course gets loose and goes on a rampage.

The cults might try to re-shape the local environment more to their liking. Forest fires, flooded swampy zones that become lakes, nasty windstorms, earthquakes plague the region and bother the residents into pestering the PCs: Hey, you heroes, DO SOMETHING about all this!

My group cleared out the necromancer's cave. If the PCs don't move in - I suggested we should move out of the inn to get away from the middle of town - a cult could.

FR lore: Calim and Memnon are two powerful beings from the Elemental Plane of Fire who like to fight each other in Calimshan (instead of at home). One or the other or both might send spies to find out what the Fire Cult is up to, maybe with a mind to take it over.

My group went into the Cult of Water's lair, cleared out 1/3 of it, and somebody decided he needed a Long Rest right then. Maybe your Cult of Water will chuck our bodies into the Town Well, as a warning to others?

 

[Nailen]

However it appears to me that in the Princes of the Apocalypse the elemental evil cults are rather passive. They sit in their dungeons and wait for group of adventurers to kill them. Their evil deeds, like kidnapping people or killing each other, apparently all happened before the adventure even starts. During the adventure their actions seem to be scripted responses to player actions, e.g. the cult reprisals and retaliations, or the prophets moving.

I would say not to underestimate the effectiveness of the Cult reprisals - if the players notice that the Cults attack them as soon as they do something, then they won't appear passive.
You could use the random encounter table to give you marauding bands of cultists who either beat up towns, farmsteads or the players. Or, maybe have them kidnap one of the faction contacts from Red Larch...?

On the topic of prophet backstories, I intend for the Keep 'boss' to have a dossier of info on their respective prophet for the party to find. Could also use Summit Hall or other 'wise and sagely' NPC to impart some knowledge...

 

[Tobold]

Take a look at what they did to Hillsfar in Adventure League. They destroyed most of the city with an elemental nuke[/URL]

That is probably a late game option. But I was thinking more of things like kidnappings and attacks before players reach level 10.

 

[Charles Rampant]

One big reason why it's hard to answer this question, is because for all intents and purposes the cults are all in the same dungeon. They can't have too wide-ranging an effect each, since they'd bump into each other in the hills! One possible answer is to just split them up, an action that I favour in general for the module (to give it the sandbox vibe that it promises but doesn't deliver in practice). When the Water Cult is away up near Yartar, then it's easy to introduce plot elements into Yartar and its environs at the same time that stuff is going down with the Earth Cult in Red Larch and the Fire and Air cults elsewhere. Thus you can try to answer this question - what are they wanting? - by introducing stuff in each place that suits the theme of the cult, and which can be viewed as a great big competition between the cults. Ultimately, they are in a race against each other for being the first to summon their master. Hopefully, this new plot can demonstrate why it matters that the players stop them now.

 

[Greg Benage]

However it appears to me that in the Princes of the Apocalypse the elemental evil cults are rather passive. They sit in their dungeons and wait for group of adventurers to kill them. Their evil deeds, like kidnapping people or killing each other, apparently all happened before the adventure even starts. During the adventure their actions seem to be scripted responses to player actions, e.g. the cult reprisals and retaliations, or the prophets moving.

It's been a long time since I read it, so I may have some misconceptions, but my issue was pretty much the opposite. The cults were essentially running covert WMD programs, attempting to summon their Princes, and yet they're out and about attempting to attract as much attention to themselves as possible. Why was this high-profile delegation abducted? Why are they "retaliating" by destroying towns before their real work is complete? They should be misdirecting, obfuscating, obstructing. It was especially weird because, IIRC, the cult would "retaliate" if the PCs let up on the pressure. I get why this was done in the game -- you want to get the PCs back on the rails, focused on the cults -- but it makes no sense from the cults' perspective. "Hey, those investigators seem distracted from their investigation, we better go raise some hell to get their attention again!"

 

[Tobold]

It's been a long time since I read it, so I may have some misconceptions, but my issue was pretty much the opposite. The cults were essentially running covert WMD programs, attempting to summon their Princes, and yet they're out and about attempting to attract as much attention to themselves as possible. Why was this high-profile delegation abducted? Why are they "retaliating" by destroying towns before their real work is complete? They should be misdirecting, obfuscating, obstructing. It was especially weird because, IIRC, the cult would "retaliate" if the PCs let up on the pressure. I get why this was done in the game -- you want to get the PCs back on the rails, focused on the cults -- but it makes no sense from the cults' perspective. "Hey, those investigators seem distracted from their investigation, we better go raise some hell to get their attention again!"

That "WMD program" might actually be a good starting point. What do the cults need to summon their prince? What keeps them from doing it right now? Why can they do it once the players reached a certain point in the story?

Maybe, because the cults of Elemental Evil are described to be about destruction, a certain degree of destruction is needed to power the node?