What are the differences between 1e and 2e?

[DungeonmasterCal]

Ok...anybody who owns their own tower rocks!

Sorry about the double post...some days I can't be trusted with technology.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Legacy of a mis-spent childhood, adolescence and young adulthood. (In another 10 years, I guess I'll have to add adulthood to that list...)

I've got a pretty good memory for these sorts of details, as the evolution of game design fascinates me. OTOH, I know very little about most of the settings of the 2e era, especially Planescape.



Ballarat is 30 km away; I'm about 140 km from Melbourne.

Find Melbourne on a map of Australia (it's in the south-east), and then go 140 km northwest. I'm still in the state of Victoria.

I live on a mountain (Mt Bolton) in a bluestone house surrounded by forest.

There's some pictures of my home here: http://www.geocities.com/merricb/photos.htm

Cheers!

Ok..anybody who owns their own tower rocks!

 

[Henry]

Make no mistake, the only reason "demons" and "devils" were removed from the game was due to pressure from various pc groups out there.

I wouldn't say "removed" - more like covered over with frosty flavor... (Mmmm... frosting....)

I can still point to Ice Devils, Bone Devils, Pit Fiends, Barbed Devils, Chasmes, Dretches, Alu-Demons, Bodaks, and the various Demon and Devil Lords in the various Monstrous Compendiums - in fact their looks didn't even change, nor the looks of the Abyss or the Hells (just their names). It was a senseless change, to be sure, but they did make the best of it. And hey, a very popular campaign setting was spawned because of it, too, so even out of the bad a little good arose.

 

[qstor]

There's a long list on the differences in the FAQ from rec.games.frp.dnd. I think the list on Dragonsfoot was from the USENET FAQ.

Mike

 

[talinthas]

I dunno, i kinda like "marillith" instead of type 6 demon or whatever =)

 

[green slime]

I dunno, i kinda like "marillith" instead of type 6 demon or whatever =)

I believe "Marilith" was supposed to be the name of a particular type V demon. The entry in MM 1e read:

Type V (Marilith, etc)

...All of these creatures have names which can be used to aid in negotiations.

 

[Biohazard]

To which pc's everywhere said, "what the f_____ f___ is a Baatezu?" Why didn't they remove other such "lame" names as dragon, giant, and goblin?

Make no mistake, the only reason "demons" and "devils" were removed from the game was due to pressure from various pc groups out there.

I agree that the names were changed due to political pressure. But it's inaccurate--nay, just plain dumb--to say that the beings previously referred to as "demons" and "devils" were *removed from the game*.

In a way it makes a certain amount of sense. Do dragons call themselves "dragons"? Or is that what humans call them?

Do halflings call themselves "halflings"? If so, why on earth would they do that? What do they think they are "half" of?

Do humans call themselves "big halflings" because they compare themselves to giants?

BTW, it's interesting to see how venomous some gamers get when discussing the removal of "demon" and "devil" from 2e. They say things like "damned fundamentalists" or "stupid pc groups" or "crazed zealots" to describe people who object to the idea of demons and devils in a game. Isn't it funny how all of our "tolerance" goes out the window when someone has a different view of things than we do?

Hmmm...

 

[Pants]

Not true. 2e simply gave demons and devils more interesting names and more colorful backgrounds. Rather than going around saying "I'm a devil! FEAR ME!" they said "I am Baatezu!"

Which is a point of view that not everyone agrees with.

I can still point to Ice Devils, Bone Devils, Pit Fiends, Barbed Devils, Chasmes, Dretches, Alu-Demons, Bodaks, and the various Demon and Devil Lords in the various Monstrous Compendiums - in fact their looks didn't even change, nor the looks of the Abyss or the Hells (just their names). It was a senseless change, to be sure, but they did make the best of it. And hey, a very popular campaign setting was spawned because of it, too, so even out of the bad a little good arose.

(Not directed towards anyone in general here...)
But I find it hilarious how some can complain about canon changes to 'that really popular setting you named,' but turn their head away and close their eyes when anyone mentions changes that that setting made to the canonical D&D planes.

Baator indeed!

 

[David Howery]

IMHO, 2E, mechanics-wise anyway, was the same game as 1E... the differences were in details, no major differences. Anything that got left out of 2E, you could easily put back in since the games were so similar.
I thought kits were a neat idea, but they were definitely a mixed bag. The ones in the CFH were pretty reasonable, but others in later books were less so.
Like others on here, I liked 2E a lot when it first came out, but the flood of 'optional' books/handbooks/DM reference books was just too much. The only 'splat' books I really liked were the historical reference ones.. the Vikings were just so cool...

 

[francisca]

That was a pretty small issue, though, since THAC0 was a superior mechanic anyway.

That's, like, your opinion, man...