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What are the differences between 1e and 2e?

doseyclwn

First Post
I played 1e for years, then basically went to 3.0 (with brief, not enough to tell foray into 2e). My question is this: What were the differences between 1st Edition and 2nd editon?
 

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talinthas

First Post
well, for one, your 1e half-orc barbarian was gonna be in for a world of pain upon conversion...

And that 18th level bard you worked so hard on isn't quite the guy you thought he was =)
 

Eluvan

First Post
They basically just made 1E rules more complex with the addition of (supposedly optional) non-weapon proficiencies, class kits and so on. Also the assassin was removed as a base class (though later added as a thief kit), and bards were lowered to the realms of mere mortals. And some other stuff... it wasn't really that radical a change, certainly not as big as the shift from 2E to 3E, but there was still a vocal minority who hated it.
 

Samothdm

First Post
I don't have the specifics memorized like most of the other people on the boards, but the basic things I remember are:

1) No half-orcs as a race in the PH. PC half-orcs weren't introduced really utnil the Complete Book of Humanoids

2) No base assassin, barbarian, or monk class in the PH. Those classes were introduced later in the Complete Handbook series as "character kits".

3) Character Kits. Not part of the PH, but an add on the 2E "splat books". Basically, you added a kit (kind of like a template) onto your base class to make a really powerful character. The hindrances were usually role-playing hindrances only ("most people won't trust you..." type stuff) so many of them were unbalanced. They were great for idea generators, though.

4) The cleric was kind of replaced by the Priest, and that class was able to be modified depending on what god(s) or forces the character worshipped. So, while there was a heavy armor wearing guy wielding a mace as the cleric, there were also light armed and armored priests who worshipped different gods and had different bonuses and penalties.

5) Illusionists were in the PH, but this was the first time (to my recollection) that they also introduced (in the Complete Wizards Handbook) specialists for the other schools of magic.

6) Multi-classing and dual-classing was the same, pretty much.

7) The role for "non-weapon proficiencies" introduced in the 1E Oriental Adventures was greatly expanded to become almost essential (although I think it was still technically an "option").

8) Lots of stuff stayed the same - alignment, "good AC = low AC", I think they even kept THAC0.

9) No level titles.

That's all I can think of right now - I tended to concentrate on the differences in the races and classes for the most part when I read through the 2E PH.
 

Samothdm

First Post
Oh, yeah - people talked about bards. They changed the whole "fighter-thief-druid" progression of bards and maybe them a base "core" class that started at 1st level.
 


Akrasia

Explorer
In order to appease the zealots and prevent worries about another "Blackleaf", 2E got rid of DEMONS, DEVILS, and other fun stuff (like the assassin, as mentioned earlier).
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
The changes (this only considers the initial 2E core books compared to the full 1E system):

Races:
* Half-orc was removed from the game.
* Gnomes were given stat modifiers
* Maximum ages were lowered, in some cases (elves) dramatically.
* Level limits for demi-humans were significantly raised.

Classes:
* The Barbarian, Cavalier, Assassin, Monk and Thief-Acrobat were removed from the game.
* The Bard was utterly changed, becoming a base class: a minor magic-user with some rogue and song abilities.
* The Illusionist became a specialist wizard without a separate spell list (see Magic)
* The ranger changed drastically, becoming a two-weapon fighter with minor druidic spell ability.

Magic:
* Many spells (like Magic Missile and Fireball) were capped as to the maximum damage they could do.
* The Illusionist was folded into the Magic-User (now Wizard) class, spell lists were combined, and idea of specialist wizards was introduced for each school of magic. (Extra spells/day but some barred spells).
* The Cleric and Druid spells were combined, and broken into "spheres". Clerics and Druids had access certain spheres according to their class and beliefs.
* The Druid's "Heirophant" levels were included in their progression tables.
* The Ranger lost magic-user spells and changed what divine spells they had access to.
* The sale value of magic items was removed.

Proficiencies:
* Weapon specialisation was retained from UA, but double specialisation was removed and bow specialisation was weakened.
* Non-weapon proficiencies were moved from the WSG and DSG basically unchanged, although the presentation was clearer.

Combat:
* The weapons vs. armour tables were simplified and made optional.
* Initiative was now based on a d10 and greatly clarified.
* Surprise was now based on a d10 and greatly clarified.
* Instead of combat tables, the use of THAC0 was promoted
* A new unarmed combat system
* Other minor changes

Experience:
* XP was gained only for killing monsters, although story goals were also suggested (no XP for treasure or magic items).

Monsters:
* Giants and Dragons were significantly increased in power, along with a few other monsters.

Cheers!
 
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Particle_Man

Explorer
A few points:

1) I thought gnomes got an Int boost, not a Wis boost?
2) Monks were a core class in 1st ed, but were only a (frankly wimpy) Priest kit in 2nd ed.
3) Assassins had "death attack" in 1st ed, but the assassin kit simply granted better use with poisons and identifying poisons. Except in the complete book of humanoids where there was an assassin kit with death attack.
4) Psionicists existed as a class in one of the splat books in 2nd ed. In 1st ed, psionics happened only to characters of other classes (or monsters, of course) and you didn't get to choose it, but randomly rolled for the chance of it.
 

Particle_Man

Explorer
Oh yeah, and paladins could be turned by high level evil clerics in 1st ed., but not 2nd ed. I remember that -- I played a 1st ed. paladin vs. an NPC evil cleric. grrrrr..... :)
 

AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
Assassins and Monks were re-introduced as full-fledged classes in a Greyhawk accessory, called Scarlet Brotherhood. This was near the end of AD&D-2nd ed's lifespan.


Regards,
Eric Anondson
 
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ares71

First Post
I liked 2nd edition at the time. Very similar to 1st edition, just compiled stuff from Unearthed Arcana, and the NW Profs from the survival guides into the PHB. Only when the glut of splat books and player's option stuff game out did I get turned off by 2nd edition. I remember ranger lost his 2d8 starting hit dice and was replaced by 1d10. Also recall the Druid and Illusionist spells were elminated and they became specialist versions of Priests and Wizards. I think the change from 2nd to 3rd had far more differences than from 1st to 2nd. Compare it more to 3.0 going to 3.5 (only a little more so).
 

Dark Jezter

First Post
MerricB said:
The changes (this only considers the initial 2E core books compared to the full 1E system):

I've said it before, Merric, but you never cease to amaze me with your encyclopedic knowledge of D&D in all its shapes and forms. Nice work! :)
 


MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Dark Jezter said:
I've said it before, Merric, but you never cease to amaze me with your encyclopedic knowledge of D&D in all its shapes and forms. Nice work!

Legacy of a mis-spent childhood, adolescence and young adulthood. (In another 10 years, I guess I'll have to add adulthood to that list...) ;)

I've got a pretty good memory for these sorts of details, as the evolution of game design fascinates me. OTOH, I know very little about most of the settings of the 2e era, especially Planescape.

green slime said:
And where in Oz is Waubra? What is the nearest outpost of civilization?

Ballarat is 30 km away; I'm about 140 km from Melbourne.

Find Melbourne on a map of Australia (it's in the south-east), and then go 140 km northwest. I'm still in the state of Victoria.

I live on a mountain (Mt Bolton) in a bluestone house surrounded by forest.

There's some pictures of my home here: http://www.geocities.com/merricb/photos.htm

Cheers!
 

green slime

First Post
MerricB said:
Ballarat is 30 km away; I'm about 140 km from Melbourne.

Find Melbourne on a map of Australia (it's in the south-east), and then go 140 km northwest. I'm still in the state of Victoria.

I live on a mountain (Mt Bolton) in a bluestone house surrounded by forest.

There's some pictures of my home here: http://www.geocities.com/merricb/photos.htm

Cheers!

I know of Ballarat. I grew up downunder, you know! ;)

Norfolk Island, South Pacific. Never been to the home state of VB, though.

Edit: (after viewing pics) That isn't a house, it's a mansion! What is that tower used for? How long did it take to build that place?
 
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