D&D 5E What are the Roles now?

[EzekielRaiden]

Don't be telling me what to comment on, or put words in my mouth. I said every edition. I don't claim to be a lexicon of information about any edition.

I'm not saying what you cannot comment on. Statements about "every" edition, "all editions," however you want to phrase it, are blanket statements. I'm not going to take it very seriously if you make blanket statements I know to be false, that's all. I don't expect you to know about every single edition--unless you claim to be speaking about "every" edition.

It doesn't seem to me you have the facts right. Thank you, all the same, for telling why you wouldn't accept anything I say.

I've provided textual references for one edition, and easily-verified references from another (5e and 4e respectively). To the best of my knowledge, you haven't, and have simply told people they're wrong to think what they think. If my understanding of the facts is wrong, instead of simply saying I'm wrong and insinuating that I'm being dogmatic and belligerent, by all means show me whatever references or information you think is pertinent and I'll consider them.

 

[MechaPilot]

I am saying a healing spell is always divine magic.

That is the part that is in error according to 3e and 4e:
3e PHB Page 23: "A bard casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards), which are drawn from the bard spell list (page 181)."
3e PHB Page 179: "Sorcerers and bards cast arcane spells, but they do not have spellbooks and do not have to prepare their spells."
4e PHB2: Bards have the arcane power source and use magic to heal.

Additionally, the healing spells themselves in 3e reference drawing upon/channeling positive energy; they say nothing about divine energy.

 

[SirAntoine]

That is the part that is in error according to 3e and 4e:
3e PHB Page 23: "A bard casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards), which are drawn from the bard spell list (page 181)."
3e PHB Page 179: "Sorcerers and bards cast arcane spells, but they do not have spellbooks and do not have to prepare their spells."
4e PHB2: Bards have the arcane power source and use magic to heal.

Additionally, the healing spells themselves in 3e reference drawing upon/channeling positive energy; they say nothing about divine energy.

If they knew it would create this confusion they would have been more careful, but I don't fault them for using abridged language to get their point across. Provided healing is divine magic, I'm fine with it.

 

[MechaPilot]

If they knew it would create this confusion they would have been more careful, but I don't fault them for using abridged language to get their point across. Provided healing is divine magic, I'm fine with it.

I get that classifying healing magic as divine magic is your preference, and that's a perfectly fine one to have, but I don't think that there is a significant amount of confusion on the subject of whether healing spells are divine magic: you are literally the first person I've ever conversed with (either in person or online) who has stated a belief that all healing magic is divine magic. Additionally, I don't believe that it was the intent of the developers that all healing magic should be divine magic (if it was, then yes, they did express that intent not only in a manner that was poor but in a manner that was so downright inconsistent with itself that it can only be said to be intentionally obtuse).

 

[SirAntoine]

A well-rounded party is the right way to look at it. You have four basic roles: the warrior to have someone who fight and kill most monsters, the rogue to have someone who can scout ahead and back everyone up, the priest who can use divine magic, and the wizard who can use arcane magic.

 

[pemerton]

Why is a ranger not suitable as a scout/back-up? Or a bard (3E, 4e or 5e version) not suitable as a healer? (That's before we even get to robustly implemented inspirational healing as in 4e.)

And why not a druid as my AoE and anti-personnel caster (using Entangle, Confusion and Charm Person or Mammal)?

The fact that different classes are functionally substitutable, although they cross the traditional AD&D class/sub-class divides, is part of what gives rise to the terminology of "roles".

 

[TrippyHippy]

Out of curiosity, by that definition of the Weave, why are warlocks arcane casters? How are they not the same as clerics- accessing magic through an intermediary?

A secret (AKA Arcane) Pact is not the same thing as a spiritual (AKA Divine) connection with an extra-dimensional being. A Warlock isn’t symbolising, channeling or even advocating the extra-dimensional being she is connected to - merely exploiting it, while being exploited in turn. It’s Arcane because it is based upon magical secrets and the like, dug up from hidden lore. A Cleric’s divine magic on the other hand denotes an actual representation, agency and affiliation with that extra dimensional being. It’s Goetic magic vs Theism.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If they knew it would create this confusion they would have been more careful, but I don't fault them for using abridged language to get their point across. Provided healing is divine magic, I'm fine with it.

the only confusion is with you... there is no hint at all that only divine magic heals, infact as we have pointed out, arcane magic does too...heck in 5e there isn't even a distinction even look at the spells.

 

[SirAntoine]

the only confusion is with you... there is no hint at all that only divine magic heals, infact as we have pointed out, arcane magic does too...heck in 5e there isn't even a distinction even look at the spells.

Yet somehow, it is so. MechaPilot may be right it was deliberate. I don't know what to say, because I have spent most of my time defending Wizards of the Coast and promoting the new edition.

 

[MechaPilot]

Yet somehow, it is so. MechaPilot may be right it was deliberate. I don't know what to say, because I have spent most of my time defending Wizards of the Coast and promoting the new edition.

To be 100% clear, I do not believe that it was deliberate. I do not believe that it was the intent of the devs that all healing magic is divine. I believe that the notion that all healing magic is divine is a misinterpretation (or an individually elected flavor choice), and it's a belief that I have literally never come across until I read where you posted it.

That said, if the intention of the devs was that all healing magic is divine, it is incredibly poorly executed to the point where I could see an argument for deliberate obfuscation. However, that relies on the intent of the devs being that all healing magic is divine magic, and I just do not believe that was their intent.