D&D 5E What are your thoughts on the DnD Next playtest sorcerer compared to the final 5e sorcerer?

[Helldritch]

We were completely surprised not to see the Next playtest sorcerer in 5ed. We were all so excited with the concept of back and forth in our little corner that we never thought it would not pass into 5ed.

The 5ed sorcerer is simply a wizard with less spell knowledge but a few meta magic to compensate...

 

[Lycurgon]

I hadn't seen the material, but the concept sounds awesome. Martial/Magic Hybrids are my favourite type of class/character.

But I don't think it fits the concept of what the Sorcerer previously was, so I can see why it may have been unpopular with the Sorcerer name. Call it something else and the feedback might have been different. But I can't think of any of the previous popular hybrid/gish class names that would fit either and they were looking back at what had come before to create 5e. Swordmage, Duskblade, Eldritch Knights don't really fit. Maybe Hexblade could have worked, but it is not quite right either.

I would love to the concept revived as a new class, but I don't think WotC would do that. Maybe a 3rd party publisher could do something similar.

 

[Minigiant]

I loved it.

So me, it wasn't the gish elements. I loved the possibility of each origin having a different secondary archetype that grows as your exhaust your sorcery.

Draconic was be part Warrior with claws and scales.
Wild Magic could have remained Magey but with more chaotic cantrips.
Divine Soul would be part Healer
Shadow would be part Warrior with deathless might and toughness
Clockwork Soul would be part Roguish as they disabled traps and locks
Aberrant Mind would be part Psionic
Storm would be would remain Magey but with at will lightning and thunder

 

[Charlaquin]

I didn't play the Next version, but the idea is cool as heck.

I'm not sure how well it works as a "sorcerer," per se, but frankly replacing the sorcerer class with whatever you'd call that concept and moving wild magic (and maybe a couple other subclasses) to another class could work.

Wild magic would work with the playtest sorcerer. Just have the chance of a wild magic surge increase as your willpower pool depletes.

 

[Charlaquin]

It sounds fascinating. Are there versions of it available for perusal online anywhere?

It’s easy to find if you Google “5e playtest sorcerer”

 

[Charlaquin]

I hadn't seen the material, but the concept sounds awesome. Martial/Magic Hybrids are my favourite type of class/character.

But I don't think it fits the concept of what the Sorcerer previously was, so I can see why it may have been unpopular with the Sorcerer name. Call it something else and the feedback might have been different. But I can't think of any of the previous popular hybrid/gish class names that would fit either and they were looking back at what had come before to create 5e. Swordmage, Duskblade, Eldritch Knights don't really fit. Maybe Hexblade could have worked, but it is not quite right either.

I would love to the concept revived as a new class, but I don't think WotC would do that. Maybe a 3rd party publisher could do something similar.

Yeah, the consensus was “this is a really cool class, but I would rather it be its own thing than a sorcerer.” We were all drinking the “modular design” kool-aid and figured everything would remain on the table as an option somewhere down the line. Little did we realize the core classes would be the only classes.

 

[Aldarc]

Yeah, the consensus was “this is a really cool class, but I would rather it be its own thing than a sorcerer.” We were all drinking the “modular design” kool-aid and figured everything would remain on the table as an option somewhere down the line. Little did we realize the core classes would be the only classes.

During the D&D Next playtest, it sometimes felt like the way that WotC maintained the illusion of the Big Tent was to gradually shrink the tent in size while also throwing things out of the tent when people weren't looking.

 

[Minigiant]

Yeah, the consensus was “this is a really cool class, but I would rather it be its own thing than a sorcerer.” We were all drinking the “modular design” kool-aid and figured everything would remain on the table as an option somewhere down the line. Little did we realize the core classes would be the only classes.

Yup.

A lot of ideas died and debate with ultratraditionalists didn't happen because many expected to see the ideas in modules and variants in the DMG. And this didn't happen.

Had we known the only new class would be the artificer and only feats and multiclassing would be major variants, people wouls have really fought for the playtest sorcerer.

 

[Helldritch]

So much of what would have been really cool was dropped at the playtests...

Still, 5ed is at least better and easier to retrofit than what was possible in the previous two editions.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yup.

A lot of ideas died and debate with ultratraditionalists didn't happen because many expected to see the ideas in modules and variants in the DMG. And this didn't happen.

Had we known the only new class would be the artificer and only feats and multiclassing would be major variants, people wouls have really fought for the playtest sorcerer.

Yeah, I think a lot of us bowed to the whims of the traditionalists because we were under the assumption that we’d get the more ambitious stuff in later supplements. And keeping the core very traditional would have made sense, if such ambitious supplements had actually been forthcoming.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Yup.

A lot of ideas died and debate with ultratraditionalists didn't happen because many expected to see the ideas in modules and variants in the DMG. And this didn't happen.

Had we known the only new class would be the artificer and only feats and multiclassing would be major variants, people wouls have really fought for the playtest sorcerer.

Yeah early 5e seemed like it was going to be the perfect base to build on and watch it develop. Before Xanathar's everyone was saying 'just wait and be patient, you will see your favourite class soon.'

But it never got built on. All we got was random subclasses spammed out with no actual changes in gameplay or player options beyond that. And now we've had so many subclasses spammed out that it feels like we're getting into content bloat territory without actually getting any meaningful content. The worst of both worlds.

 

[dave2008]

I don't think so, but some people on these boards still have it. If you DM them they may send it to you. I think @dave2008 previously mentioned they had a copy.

@South by Southwest , I do have a bunch of the next playtest documents. If you DM me I can give you a link if I have the one with the sorcerer.

 

[Greg K]

Had we known the only new class would be the artificer and only feats and multiclassing would be major variants, people wouls have really fought for the playtest sorcerer.

Some people may have fought for the playtest sorcerer, but I would not have been one of them. Despite not being entirely happy with the 5e sorcerer, I will take it over the playtest Draconic Sorcerer and what I recall being discussed for other subclasses.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Some people may have fought for the playtest sorcerer, but I would not have been one of them. Despite not being entirely happy with the 5e sorcerer, I will take it over the playtest Draconic Sorcerer and what I recall being discussed for other subclasses.

What would you have thought about the playtest sorcerer being its own class, separate from the sorcerer?

 

[Minigiant]

Some people may have fought for the playtest sorcerer, but I would not have been one of them. Despite not being entirely happy with the 5e sorcerer, I will take it over the playtest Draconic Sorcerer and what I recall being discussed for other subclasses.

Well my preference would be somewhere in the middle. Rather than Metamagic, sorcerer's would have an origin form that sorcery points and spell slots could be fed into.

 

[Yaarel]

It's the reason we don't have an arcane gish class. In older editions the 'sorcerer thing' was spontaneous casting, while everyone else used vancian casting. When 5e came along all casters got spontaneous casting and so the sorcerer suddenly had no unique thing (metamagic being a feat for all caster back then).

So the playtest sorcerer was a half casting will point powered arcane gish, which gradually transformed into their bloodline as their will was exhausted. Giving it a completely unique set of themes and mechanics.

At the last minute it got switched to the sorcerer we have now (discount wizard with the metamagic feat duct taped to the side), and the arcane gish role got left empty.

I feel there needs to be at least two psionic classes: an innate full caster with normal 5e mechanics, and a separate class with experimental mechanics.

How would psionic fans feel if the psionic class that had experimental mechanics looked more like this transmogrifying Sorcerer gish concept?

 

[jmartkdr2]

I feel there needs to be at least two psionic classes: an innate full caster with normal 5e mechanics, and a separate class with experimental mechanics.

How would psionic fans feel if the psionic class that had experimental mechanics looked more like this transmogrifying Sorcerer gish concept?

I'm not sure that fits the psionic theme - psions aren't different in origin from 'normal' humans, they're just people with a specific kind of special ability.

Also, the sticking point for a lot of people is that psionics are not spellcasting. It needs to be something other than spellcasting, just as much as fighter maneuvers need to be something other than spellcasting.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm not sure that fits the psionic theme - psions aren't different in origin from 'normal' humans, they're just people with a specific kind of special ability.

Also, the sticking point for a lot of people is that psionics are not spellcasting. It needs to be something other than spellcasting, just as much as fighter maneuvers need to be something other than spellcasting.

For the normal mechanics Psion, 5e already has "psionic" spellcasters whose spellcasting is "innate", without components, and this is fine.

For the experimental psionic mechanics the "bloodline" transmogrifier could work, using a new "will points" mechanic. Psionics includes psychometabolism and many 3e psiwar gishes had body transformation builds.

One of the Fizbanes concepts is that the presence of a powerful dragon transforms its surrounding area making it more draconic. The bloodline could be a character under this kind of influence, and the influence might be psychometabolic by definition.

 

[jmartkdr2]

For the normal mechanics Psion, 5e already has "psionic" spellcasters whose spellcasting is "innate", without components, and this is fine.

For the experimental psionic mechanics the "bloodline" transmogrifier could work, using a new "will points" mechanic. Psionics includes psychometabolism and many 3e psiwar gishes had body transformation builds.

One of the Fizbanes concepts is that the presence of a powerful dragon transforms its surrounding area making it more draconic. The bloodline could be a character under this kind of influence, and the influence might be psychometabolic by definition.

If you define psionic powers as being dragon-based, I suppose? But that's not even remotely present in the traditional flavor of psionics.

Also, unless the new sorcerer doesn't cast spells by default, it still won't work.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Lots of things were different in the DnD Next playtest, with things like martials getting a variety of manoeuvres, to casting in armour still not being allowed as a holdout from earlier editions. However one of the biggest differences was the sorcerer, which was an entirely different class concept altogether.

We only saw the draconic sorcerer, and only up to level 5, but it has almost nothing in common with the final sorcerer which we got later on, appearing for only a single playtest packet and then vanishing again until the final release of 5e.

The class was an arcane half caster, with a d8 hit die, and proficiency in all weapons and armour. Rather than spell slots it used 'will points' similar to the variant rule in the DMG. What really set it apart was that it would gain the abilities of its subclass as it spent those will points, becoming more like its power source as the adventuring day progressed. So for draconic you would gain claws and scales after spending 3 and 10 willpower respectively, turning you more melee orientated over time.

Sadly we never got to see what the other subclasses would be, or what would happen past level 5. But I found the class concept fascinating, and not really alike to anything we have in game currently.

it was a cool idea, and everyone I spoke to thought it was a great class... but odd coming from the 4e elemental class, and 3e it being basically a 5e wizard.