Mercule
Adventurer
If this is not in there, someone at WotC needs a kick in the junk. I cannot believe that they haven't addressed this at all, yet.
What can we expect from DMG2
- Thread starter Lord Zardoz
- Start date
Jack99
Adventurer
Because it is not necessary? It's very very simple to create minions.
On the WotC boards, this is what has been collected
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Fabio Andrea Rossi
First Post
What I would really want to see in the DMG II , or any PHB to follow, is some optional rules for those like me who, while liking the many brilliant ideas of 4E, miss some older editions elements.
I think that not only that would be very appreciated by the actual 4e users looking for some alternative to the issues they don’t appreciate, but it would also open the door for those people who dislike 4e for some specific issue.
Nothing enormous: I think that some pages would be more than enough to provide valid alternatives from the professional designers of the game.
I know that there’s some kind of reverential fear to touch design elements central to 4e like the balance, but it’d be enough to put a disclaimer like:” Ok, 4e has been designed with specific design goals, the following rules go into different paths and therefore may not guarantee the same level of balance-easiness-compatibility as the standard rules”.
D&D is a game played mainly in small local groups, I bet I’m not the only Dm more than willing to have more possibilities and options, even in the core mechanic of the game.
I’m thinking for instance to quicker combats by downscaling the HP of both monsters and pcs (in my campaign, monsters have 50% less HP and pcs have 30%-20% depending on role), more deadly effects (powers allowing to eliminate lesser foes with 2 failed save or similar mechanics), alternatives for multiclassing, suggestions on how to create old style, unbalanced, flavourful magic items like the true Vorpal sword, these kind of elements that are out of the 4e but with small changes can be brought back if someone wants them in their own game.
I know I can do this, but to have this designed by the pros would add a lot of value to the rulebooks like the PHB or DMG.
The DMG seems the natural place to provide such options.
Scott if you read this, be our champion on this if it pleases you!
I think that not only that would be very appreciated by the actual 4e users looking for some alternative to the issues they don’t appreciate, but it would also open the door for those people who dislike 4e for some specific issue.
Nothing enormous: I think that some pages would be more than enough to provide valid alternatives from the professional designers of the game.
I know that there’s some kind of reverential fear to touch design elements central to 4e like the balance, but it’d be enough to put a disclaimer like:” Ok, 4e has been designed with specific design goals, the following rules go into different paths and therefore may not guarantee the same level of balance-easiness-compatibility as the standard rules”.
D&D is a game played mainly in small local groups, I bet I’m not the only Dm more than willing to have more possibilities and options, even in the core mechanic of the game.
I’m thinking for instance to quicker combats by downscaling the HP of both monsters and pcs (in my campaign, monsters have 50% less HP and pcs have 30%-20% depending on role), more deadly effects (powers allowing to eliminate lesser foes with 2 failed save or similar mechanics), alternatives for multiclassing, suggestions on how to create old style, unbalanced, flavourful magic items like the true Vorpal sword, these kind of elements that are out of the 4e but with small changes can be brought back if someone wants them in their own game.
I know I can do this, but to have this designed by the pros would add a lot of value to the rulebooks like the PHB or DMG.
The DMG seems the natural place to provide such options.
Scott if you read this, be our champion on this if it pleases you!
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
It is very simple to create a minion from scratch. It is much harder to convert a 6th level or higher Brute or Soldier into a Minion when the base monster has powers that trigger when bloodied, or has regeneration. To convert that kind of monster properly, you have to remove the power. Easy enough, but how to you recalculate the XP cost if you remove an ability?
END COMMUNICATION
Jack99
Adventurer
X level minion gives Y amount of xp no matter what powers the original monsters have. I am not sure I understand the problem.
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
A monster is a Level X monster because of some combination of its total HP, Defenses, and its special abilities. Take away some of those special abilities, and it is now a monster of level X-Z.
I contend that if I have to remove an ability that only works if the monster has more than 1 hp (ie, something it can do when bloodied like the Goblin Berzerker), then the monster cannot be directly translated to a minion in that case without skewing the XP value it ought to give.
END COMMUNICATION
Jack99
Adventurer
Actually, that is not correct. A monster's level comes from it's hit points, to hit, and defenses. Or rather, those three are derived from it's level. Special attacks have very little to do with level, although there are some guidelines (like damage depending on level) and some powers do not appear until paragon level (like aftereffects and stuff like petrification).
Thasmodious
First Post
Jack is right. For a minion, just take an example of that race, draw a line through its role derived powers, leave its racial powers unless they have to do with hit points (notice orc minions simply lose the orcs surge power), set their HP to 1, and change their xp to a minion of that level.
It really doesn't matter if perhaps the minion should lose 1 level from its base because it lost Warrior's Surge or something similar. The difference in minion xp by level is negligible. Lower their Init and Senses a bit, too, if you like.
It really doesn't matter if perhaps the minion should lose 1 level from its base because it lost Warrior's Surge or something similar. The difference in minion xp by level is negligible. Lower their Init and Senses a bit, too, if you like.
Intense_Interest
First Post
I would hope that there would be a 10-20 page Errata for all the phase-one Core books (PHB, DMG, MM) for people who don't want to print up stuff from the internet to use and reference on their off-line table.
Quickleaf
Legend
Hey Jack, I'm wondering how I would do a troll minion and I'm not finding it easy like you say. I know I've picked a hard one to model because of regeneration, so I'm having to create a new power that captures the essence of regeneration but at the minion scale. So, there are definitely exceptions to the "minions are easy" motto.
