D&D General What class is Gandalf?

[Yaarel]

Assuming Paladin:

• Fire and light manipulation: This is Gandalf's most commonly seen power - he is described as having "made a special study of bewitchments with fire and light", suggesting he is exceptionally talented in this area. His feats include emitting light from his staff, breaking the Bridge of Khazad-dûm using white light, dispelling the Nazgûl using white light, and killing multiple orcs with "a terrific flash like lightning". His staff seems to be important in performing this magic, and of course it's hotly debated whether his possession of the Ring of Fire was linked to his light and fire abilities.

Mostly radiant damage, and light spells.

Consider the Sacred Flame cantrip is "flame-like" radiant energy, and a player can make any radiant spell appear fiery. Gandalf imagery blends fire-light, and 5e radiant mechanics are spot on.

His magic item the Ring of Fire Narya is possible for his setting things on fire, guiding the smoke rings, shaping flames. The fiery effects are at the level of a cantrip, like Fire Bolt or Control Flames. The cantrip can come from a feat, but his Ring of Fire is a satisfactory explanation.

• Telepathy: Gandalf can seemingly read Frodo's mind while he is asleep ("It has not been hard for me to read your mind and memory") and communicates with Elrond and Galadriel by thought alone. He is also able to tell that the One Ring is beyond his influence after reuniting with Aragorn's party.

The telepathy seems angelic, and could come from his race, but will think about it.

Telepathy spells need fixing in D&D, but these above examples feel like what should be a slot 2 spell that several classes have on their spell list. Telepathy is a support spell, relating to divination.

• Telekinesis: Gandalf can move (and change the colour of) smoke rings without physically touching them.

The smoke rings are a minor fire effect, arguably from his fire ring. It would be like a Control Flames cantrip if permitted to manipulate the smoke as well as the flames.

• He also disarms Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn

The Command spell, Drop, can disarm at least one of them. Perhaps a variant would increase targets with a higher spell slot.

• breaks Saruman's staff.

This feels more like dramatizing a Dispel Magic spell. Will think on it.

• Blessing: Gandalf blesses both Bill the pony and Butterbur's beer. Bill subsequently escapes to Rivendell against the characters' expectations.

Bless spell, Heroes Feast, or similar support spell.

• Healing: Gandalf is able to heal Theoden, both spiritually and physically ("You do not know your own skill in healing").

Cure Wounds, Restoration, or similar healing spell.

• Transmogrification: Gandalf suggests he is capable of turning a hobbit into an animal ("And see that Sam Gamgee does not talk. If he does, I really shall turn him into a toad"). There's no hard evidence that Gandalf was joking when he said this, and in fact I'd argue it would be out of character for him to joke about things he was entirely incapable of doing.

Apparently Polymorph - will think on it.

Did one of the starter sets for younger kids come with a low level spell that could transmute a target into a toad?

The polymorphing is an outlier, and didnt happen, and we probably need not stat it for D&D. If of interest, a magic item or even a miracle can handwaive it.

• Opening and closing spells: Gandalf uses "various incantations" in an unsuccessful attempt to open the trolls' cave. At the Doors of Durin, he mentions knowing over 200 spells for opening doors. Later, at the Chamber of Mazarbul, he refers to knowing "many" shutting spells.

Thaumaturgy cantrip to open and shut. Note that it failed to work on something magically locked.

One might prefer to see Knock and Wizard Lock but Thaumaturgy (or even Mage Hand) is explanation enough.

• Word of Command: Gandalf speaks a word of Command to counter the Balrog's counter-spell. The context suggests that this is a means of making his own spell stronger.

This might just be using a higher spell slot for a better DC.

• Compulsion: Gandalf is able to force Saruman to look at him against his will using only his voice.

Command spell, Approach.

• Creation of magical items: Gandalf gifts the Old Took "a pair of magic diamond studs that fastened themselves and never came undone until ordered" (although it's possible these were made by someone else). His fireworks could also be interpreted as being magical.

Others made his magic items, including his ring and sword.

Inspiration - Gandalf brings hope to people. The White Rider counters the effects of the fear from the Nazgul, for instance, and his talk to Theoden helps bring him back from the despair he has sunk into. We are told in the Silmarillion that he often does this in secret, putting fair thoughts into elves' heads without them knowing the source.

Paladin Aura, or aura spell to counter Frightened effects. Theoden could be helped by Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Restoration, or similar.

Insight - He has a particularly strong gift for seeing the way things should be. He knows, somehow, that calling on a mere hobbit to join 13 dwarves would lead to some unnatural good. He knows that Merry and Pippin would serve a strong purpose in joining the Fellowship. He knows that Bilbo did right to show Gollum mercy. He knows there is something wrong with the ring Bilbo finds...

Augury, Commune, or similar divination spell.

Pity - For a powerful being Gandalf shows an exceptional amount of pity and care for all those who dwell in Middle-Earth. He travels all lands, he communes with those high and low, and he knows details of the most little things. Not because he seeks knowledge, like Saruman, but because he really cares about all these things. And in the end this gives him a power to move the world for good.

In some ways, Gandalf personifies fire: the light of truth, the heat of passion, and the humility of ash.

Radiant spells cohere with most of his firelight spells, his ring explains the minor fire effects.

His attitude of humility and zealousness and compassion, feels like a Paladin oath.

Altho a standard Devotion Paladin oath, his spin on it feels like helping humanoids to do Good but without violating their free will.

 

[HammerMan]

I put down warlock, but I really need to explain. He only knows a few spells, they are powerful, but he normally attacks with his sword. He is knowledgeable but his main ability is to Inspire Hope (technically fan the flames of hope) and as an angel like being I honestly think making him a warlock would be a great way to get the feel.

Maybe a Aasimar (I wish 4e deva was a thing, but you could take the reborn form Van Ricten's after the balrog fight) Warlock/Paladin multi class with some game specific pact and oath.


Maybe not... Hexblade/pact of blade Oath of Ancients with a bit of refluff could do it.

Edit: a bard could work too I guess... like many characters you could most likely make him as 2-5 different builds and still get the essence.

 

[Thunderfoot]

So you're a fan of DM of the Rings too?

Can we play PS2 later?

 

[Maxperson]

There are a few more « wizardy » spells that Gandalf uses in LotR, such as the leaping fires that ignited a ring of trees around the wolves, and the shutting spell that he puts on the door of the chamber of records in the Moria. He also has clear limitations, such as the inability to fly or the inability to conjure fire if there isn’t anything to burn. Figuratively, it’s the same with kindling hope and courage in the heart of men: it needs to be there to be rekindled.

he launched fireballs at the Nazgul at Weathertop. And I don't remember a specific inability to fly. Where was that mentioned?

 

[Laurefindel]

Assuming Paladin:

Mostly radiant damage, and light spells.

Consider the Sacred Flame cantrip is "flame-like" radiant energy, and a player can make any radiant spell appear fiery. Gandalf imagery blends fire-light, and 5e radiant mechanics are spot on.

His magic item the Ring of Fire Narya is possible for his igniting fires, guiding the smoke rings, setting things on fire. The fiery effects are at the level of a cantrip, like Fire Bolt or Control Flames. The cantrip can come from a feat, but his Ring of Fire is a satisfactory explanation.


The telepathy seems angelic, and could come from his race, but will think about it.

Telepathy spells need fixing in D&D, but these above examples feel like what should be a slot 2 spell that several classes have on their spell list. Telepathy is a support spell, relating to divination.


The smoke rings are a minor fire effect, arguably from his fire ring. It would be like a Control Flames cantrip if permitted to manipulate the smoke as well as the flames.


The Command spell, Drop, can disarm at least one of them. Perhaps a variant would increase targets with a higher spell slot.


This feels more like dramatizing a Dispel Magic spell. Will think on it.


Bless spell, Heroes Feast, or similar support spell.


Cure Wounds, Restoration, or similar healing spell.


Apparently Polymorph - will think on it.

Did one of the starter sets for younger kids come with a low level spell that could transmute a target into a toad?

The polymorphing is an outlier, and didnt happen, and we probably need not stat it for D&D. If of interest, a magic item or even a miracle can handwaive it.


Thaumaturgy cantrip to open and shut. Note that it failed to work on something magically locked.

One might prefer to see Knock and Wizard Lock but Thaumaturgy (or even Mage Hand) is explanation enough.


This might just be using a higher spell slot for a better DC.


Command spell, Approach.


Others made his magic items, including his ring and sword.


Paladin Aura, or aura spell to counter Frightened effects. Theoden could be helped by Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Restoration, or similar.


Augury, Commune, or similar divination spell.


In some ways, Gandalf personifies fire: the light of truth, the heat of passion, and the humility of ash.

Radiant spells cohere with most of his firelight spells, his ring explains the minor fire effects.

His attitude of humility and zealousness and compassion, feels like a Paladin oath.

Altho a standard Devotion Paladin oath, his spin on it feels like helping humanoids to do Good but without violating their free will.

Good points, although to be fair, the ring of fire could just as well be the source of all the auras and other Paladin-y effects, or so could his race be (some sort of aasimar?), or even his staff without which he cannot use most of these powers (it’s not explicitly said but implied in a few places, such as Gandalf insisting on keeping his staff in King Theoden’s hall and the shattering of Saruman’s staff).

So he’s either a Paladin with magic items granting wizard-like powers, or a wizard with magic items granting Paladin-like powers. The magic item part is equally valid in either directons.

ultimately, I vote wizard because no armor

… and also because I like to reserve a few paladin levels to Aragorn and Faramir, despite them being quintessential rangers.

 

[Maxperson]

Assuming Paladin:

Mostly radiant damage, and light spells.

Consider the Sacred Flame cantrip is "flame-like" radiant energy, and a player can make any radiant spell appear fiery. Gandalf imagery blends fire-light, and 5e radiant mechanics are spot on.

His magic item the Ring of Fire Narya is possible for his setting things on fire, guiding the smoke rings, shaping flames. The fiery effects are at the level of a cantrip, like Fire Bolt or Control Flames. The cantrip can come from a feat, but his Ring of Fire is a satisfactory explanation.

Well, there were the fireballs at Weathertop.

 

[Maxperson]

So he’s either a Paladin with magic items granting wizard-like powers, or a wizard with magic items granting Paladin-like powers. The magic item part is equally valid in either directons.

False Dichotomy.

He could also be an angel with divine powers who is also a wizard. Like say.........................a Maia Istari.

 

[Laurefindel]

False Dichotomy.

He could also be an angel with divine powers who is also a wizard. Like say.........................a Maia Istari.

False dichotomy indeed! Let’s pretend it’s at the bottom of a complex dichotomous key then

As I said, Gandalf is the Batman of high fantasy; there’s about 10000 different and equally valid builds!

 

[Yaarel]

Paladin is a better match.

Good points, although to be fair, the ring of fire could just as well be the source of all the auras and other Paladin-y effects, or so could his race be (some sort of aasimar?)

Sure, but easier said than done. One would need to compare which specific 5e feature with what the Tolkien narrative describes, considering both the flavor and the action. Some D&D features feel closer than others.

Presumably his race can do some magical effect, but then which official race? Which race trait? Which event in the Tolkien story.

As is, the Paladin class explains most or all of the texts about Gandalf.

Some posters prefer Gandalf be an NPC with a monster statblock. Of course, if a DM is introducing Gandalf or a Gandalf-esque into an adventure, then the NPC is the way to do it.

But, Gandalf is a compelling character concept that is an interesting choice for a player character. I feel it is worthwhile to explore the most exact official
mechanics possible to build a Gandalf player character. Then a player can use this information to build ones own character and modify it according to taste.

or even his staff without which he cannot use most of these powers (it’s not explicitly said but implied in a few places, such as Gandalf insisting on keeping his staff in King Theoden’s hall and the shattering of Saruman’s staff).

It seems to me, the staff of Gandalf is his Paladin holy symbol.

He needs his holy symbol.

But his holy symbol might also be a magic item with magical benefits, such as to enhance his spellcasting or add spells of its own, or likely grant him an AC bonus.

So he’s either a Paladin with magic items granting wizard-like powers, or a wizard with magic items granting Paladin-like powers.

The lack of a spellbook, the lack of academic flavor, the emphatic Charisma, the centrality of alignment, makes a D&D Wizard feel inappropriate. I find a divine Sorcerer a better match than a Wizard. And a Paladin best of all.

Meanwhile, his divine spells are significantly high level, like Healing and Restoration, and he appears to Turn Undead that are high level. By contrast, those spells resembling wizardry like blowing smoke rings are at the low level of a cantrip or minor spells, and are easier to explain as a peripheral magic item, a feat granting cantrip and spell, or a brief multiclass dip. The Paladin features feel central.

Gandalf is highly effective in melee combat.

If Gandalf chose to wear heavy armor, few would doubt he is a Paladin. But he seems to dislike armor that would impede his high Dexterity. No doubt he boosts his AC magically, as a Paladin can, and maybe his magic holy symbol can too.

The magic item part is equally valid in either directons.

ultimately, I vote wizard because no armor

As above. Nothing in D&D forces a high Dex Paladin to wear armor. He seems to prefer Dex plus Paladin buffs and possibly magic item buffs instead.

… and also because I like to reserve a few paladin levels to Aragorn and Faramir, despite them being quintessential rangers.

The 5e Paladin (also Bard) is a remarkably versatile class that can support many character concepts.

Regarding Gandalf, he is a normal Devotion Paladin. Heh, to get distracted by his lack of armor is ... superficial.

 

[Yaarel]

False Dichotomy.

He could also be an angel with divine powers who is also a wizard. Like say.........................a Maia Istari.

But then ... which official D&D angel? Which angel trait is doing what event in the Tolkein stories? To specify the D&D mechanics in play reduces the number of possibilities.