What do/don't you like about mecha

[JEL]

Which makes Macross mecha the only ones that make sense.

I mean seriously...

"Why would anyone make a 50 foot tall walking mecha?"

"Umm...because the aliens we're going to have to fight are 50 feet tall? And if we can't fight them person to person, we are SOO screwed."

"Oh. Gotcha. Well, THAT makes sense."

Most super robots would qualify for similar reasons.

My beef with any giant robot rules I've seen is that none of them really try to emulate the genre.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Technically speaking, mecha might make sense from a military perspective if they a) were designed to operate primarily or entirely in space, and therefore didn't have to deal with the same targeting profile and structural integrity issues they do on land/in a planet's gravity well, and b) had a direct (psychic or datajack) link to their pilots allowing the pilots to translate their familiar human actions into a larger scale and in hard vaccuum.

Either a) or b) taken in isolation makes them at least theoretically viable for some tasks. The two taken together make them possibly the best choice.

Add in cultural factors (traditions of martial arts and single-pilot military vehicles, for example, perhaps with warrior-aristocrat tendencies) and sufficiently advanced science and you have a potentially believable mecha-equipped future.

Ironically, using 'mecha,' such as they are, is one of the handful of things in Evangelion that makes sense in light of the backstory. Of course, the 'normal infantry weapons scaled up for EVA use' doesn't, so it's all good. Most mecha conspiracy/giant alien mecha series fall into the 'makes a certain sort of sense' category to one extent or another; the mecha is the product of super-science far beyond normal military equipment, often designed to deal with opponents immune to long-range attacks, often on the basis of alien tech.

Standard Battletech-style walking mechs as the main weapons of the military, on the other hand, make no sense at all. They're ranged-weapon focused, (comparatively) lightly armored, vulnerable, physically improbable walking tanks that should be inferior to normal tanks in every way.

Of course, they're still pretty COOL, but...

 

[DarkKestral]

Actually, walking mechs and powered armors are a good idea in some forms of difficult terrain, as walkers can potentially go through terrain which is signficantly more difficult than what even the most mobile tanks can handle well. Examples include some mountain ranges, as well as swamps which are riddled with uneven terrain that has a tendency to cause problems for tracked and wheeled vehicles. Urban terrain is also one area in which militaries believe small mechs and powered armors would have fewer downsides and significant advantages over current vehicular combat systems.

In those cases, walkers, for all of their armor inefficiencies, are better than what is currently used, which are primarily combat helicopters and infantry, neither of which are usually armored significantly, and offer the helicopter's mix of speed and weaponry on a frame which offers ground-control capacity similar to infantry, as they can effectively operate in narrow combat zones, and ones with a large amount of uneven debris.

 

[Eternal Knot Games]

Actually, walking mechs and powered armors are a good idea in some forms of difficult terrain, as walkers can potentially go through terrain which is signficantly more difficult than what even the most mobile tanks can handle well. Examples include some mountain ranges, as well as swamps which are riddled with uneven terrain that has a tendency to cause problems for tracked and wheeled vehicles. Urban terrain is also one area in which militaries believe small mechs and powered armors would have fewer downsides and significant advantages over current vehicular combat systems.

In those cases, walkers, for all of their armor inefficiencies, are better than what is currently used, which are primarily combat helicopters and infantry, neither of which are usually armored significantly, and offer the helicopter's mix of speed and weaponry on a frame which offers ground-control capacity similar to infantry, as they can effectively operate in narrow combat zones, and ones with a large amount of uneven debris.

That's what GURPS Mecha says in its 'why use mecha'. The problem is that not many people use mecha in this light and use mecha as standard tanks. It's like using spec ops troops and placing them in front line action with rank and file troops...

 

[Arrgh! Mark!]

I have issues with the Guardians of Order mecha system.


I mean.. it's cool. But there's just something that bothers me; any armour at all - I mean any - makes your mecha either 1. ridiculously slow or 2. expensive.


So it makes tanks well (ish..) and it makes F-16 jets well. And shooting a jet when It's diving and bobbing going at mach whatever is hard admittedly.

It doesn't find the middle ground for mecha. Basically the weapons do a lot of damage and the armor and hit points can't hack it unless you have a tricked out super-mech.

I have no problem with a deadly mecha game. Good for Robotech style. But (I haven't got it here) there isn't a direct correlation between how good the pilot is and how easily the mechs can evade attacks. No pilot vs. attack roll or anything like that.

Now, going fast, doing flips and things gives a static bonus to armor. But it doesn't emulate the dogfight well - and when there's no decent hit points it means PC's are wasted when they get hit - which they will with the low AC the mechs have.


Eggshells with howitzers is how I heard it described. And not enough piloting skills to make up for the eggshellyness.

I haven't heard much of the other systems, but my friends seemed to enjoy the Palladium sytem robotech books (I never played it.)

 

[Pbartender]

Actually, walking mechs and powered armors are a good idea in some forms of difficult terrain, as walkers can potentially go through terrain which is signficantly more difficult than what even the most mobile tanks can handle well. Examples include some mountain ranges, as well as swamps which are riddled with uneven terrain that has a tendency to cause problems for tracked and wheeled vehicles. Urban terrain is also one area in which militaries believe small mechs and powered armors would have fewer downsides and significant advantages over current vehicular combat systems.

In those cases, walkers, for all of their armor inefficiencies, are better than what is currently used, which are primarily combat helicopters and infantry, neither of which are usually armored significantly, and offer the helicopter's mix of speed and weaponry on a frame which offers ground-control capacity similar to infantry, as they can effectively operate in narrow combat zones, and ones with a large amount of uneven debris.

Unless, of course, you have the technology to make tanks fly like helicopters, in which case mecha are obsolete. And in all likelyhood, if you can make effective balance, motor and power systems for mecha, then you've probably got the technology to make the balance, motor and power systems for flying (or at least hovering) tanks, APCs and Humvees.

A second thought... Do you think a properly engineered mecha, with all of the moveable parts required by its legs, would be any more heavily armored than your average attack helicopter? Especially if you want it to move at a reasonable speed?

 

[The Black Kestrel]

I've replied to several topics like this on both the Enworld and Wizards boards. The Mecha system presented in in d20 Future isn't bad, but it isn't great. It's fatal flaw is that it is a slot based, modular system that doesn't provide you with the rules on how to buld your own modules to place in the slots. There are more problems with it than that and several posters have elaborated on them in this thread already.

In contrast there is the d20 Mecha system from the now, unfortunately defunct Gaurdians of Order (get it here while you can: http://www.guardiansorder.com/games/d20/srd/). It is by far the best Mecha (and power armor and vehicle and starship etc.) creation system for d20. It was designed in partial collabaration with Dream Pod 9 (the makers of Heavy Gear and the excellent Silhouette system). While it too suffers from some flaws (mostly erratad already) it provides an internally logical system from designing your vehicle, to the weapon systems on the vehicle, to exotic abilities like regeneration and transformable mecha. I highly recommend it for all your mecha (and power armor and vehicle and starship etc.) needs. It is compatble with d20 Modern and with d20 Future (though a little dated as Future was published after d20 Mecha). If you have the money I highly recommend Dream Pod 9's Mecha Compendium Deluxe (http://www.dp9.com/Products/D20Mecha.htm) which has the full d20 Mecha creation rules along 14 (!!!) example settings with several mecha designs each.

For Arrgh! Mark!

The qoute you're thinking of came from me and was used to describe the differences between d20 Future Mecha and d20 Mecha Mecha. D20 Future mecha are battleships armed with spit balls and d20 Mecha Mecha are eggshells armed with howitzers.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

As much as I prefer d20 Mecha's mecha rules to d20 Future's mecha rules, especially since the former cover all vehicles rather than just giant robots, the battleships with spitballs paradigm is definitely more in keeping with the d20 tradition.

Personally, I'd like to know how people have done with GREATLY reducing the cost of armor (or perhaps hp) in d20 Mecha. Currently, it handles live-fast-die-young super robots like the EVAs, or military mecha like the ones in Robotech, but it doesn't handle tough, ablative hp and armor mecha, like those of Battletech or Xenogears, well at all.

 

[Aussiegamer]

my self I prefer neither, as I like a more balanced approach for damage vs DR.

 

[DwelleroftheDeep]

Well, the fact that d20 mecha is easy to house rule into significant changes (Armor now costs 3 or even 1 per point) can make for the much more significant defenses required against many of the weapons you can design Unless you blow your extra points on bigger guns.)