What do you think of poison in d20

[dungeon blaster]

I do Fort save for half damage. It just makes no sense that you could be poisoned and not feel a thing.

Also, instead of immediate onset, you could try onset 2d10 rounds.

 

[Nyeshet]

I only use immediate onset for injury poisons. When a snake (or spider, etc) bites, their poison is suppose to start affecting their prey / foe immediately. For all other poisons the onset occurs after one interval - which can be anywhere from 10 to 1000 rounds (+/- a multiple of the Con mod).

The idea of a fort save for half, in my opinion, would be too dangerous. Especially in a system where there would typically be two to four itterations. A fort save for half would mean a minimum of one point of ability damage occuring each time. Granted, that would not normally be troublesome in my system due to the more usually lower damage dice poisons, but higher damage dice poisons - or poisons with many short intervals - could easily prove deadly.

As I mentioned when speaking of slow poisoning, 1d2 ability damage - over a long enough period of time without aid - will kill anything, even if it takes several weeks.

 

[dungeon blaster]

Yeah, it is deadly. But I can't think of anything more deadly than poison so it makes sense to me. I would also rule that if the poison does 1 damage and a fort save is successful, it deals no damage. I would also change many natural poisons to dex damage. Once dex hits 0, suffocation begins.

 

[Turanil]

As someone said earlier, having to re-calculate your bab, save, hp, etc., each time your are poisoned, is tedious and slows the game pace. I have been mulling over this, trying to find a simpler method. I was thinking that poison would still affect Strength, Constitution, Dexterity, etc. However, instead of reducing the ability score, it inflicts "poisoning strain" (until I find better words ). The idea is: for every two points of "poisoning strain" the character suffers a -1 penalty to something. Then, when these poisoning strain points reach a total equal to half a certain ability score, a special effect happens; and when the poisoning strain points reach a total equal to that ability score, paralysis, death, or what not occurs. The effects of each poison would be specific, such as, for examples:

-- Weakening poison: relates to Strength; poisoning strain imposes a penalty to hit rolls, etc.; at half the Str score the character is exhausted; and at Str score the character falls to the ground unable to move.
-- Paralytic poison: relates to Dexterity; poisoning strain imposes a penalty to AC and initiative, etc.; at half the Dex score the character is slowed; and at Dex score the character is paralyzed.
-- Debilitating poison: relates to Constitution; poisoning strain imposes a penalty to all d20 rolls, etc.; at half the Con score the character loses half of his hp; and at Con score the character dies.
-- Madening poison: relates to Wisdom; poisoning strain imposes a penalty to perception rolls, etc.; at half the Wis score the character cannot distinguish between friends and foes; and at Wis score the character becomes berserk or catatonic or what not.
ETC.

What do you think?

 

[S'mon]

I reckon that for poison I'm going to make the default onset time 1 minute - so normally after combat has ended - with a single Fort save per bite/wound, success resulting in minimum damage rather than 0 damage (eg 1 CON rather than 1d6 CON), and limit the number of times animals can inject venom - 3/day seems right for most, AFAIK that's about what snakes can do.

 

[Staffan]

However, instead of reducing the ability score, it inflicts "poisoning strain" (until I find better words ). The idea is: for every two points of "poisoning strain" the character suffers a -1 penalty to something. Then, when these poisoning strain points reach a total equal to half a certain ability score, a special effect happens; and when the poisoning strain points reach a total equal to that ability score, paralysis, death, or what not occurs.

I'm about 95% certain that there was a sidebar about using this as a variant rule in the DMG, minus the half-way special effect. Might have been removed in 3.5e though.

 

[woodelf]

Well I never really used 2e poison, in 1e it was usually save-or-die. I don't miss that, but I miss weak poisons that just did hp damage for a bit of added lethality; eg derro poison save or +2d6 damage, I'll probably use that again. One thing I think 3e needs for poisonous animals is listed limits on the number of times/day they can inject poison, I'm thinking 3/day for most. Possibly combine that with increased ability damage for the weaker ones. I don't much like the instant onset of poison - in 1e/2e w 1 minute combat round it was a reasonable handwave, but 6-second animal venom in 3e I don't like, I think I might just make all poison 1 minute onset, with the secondary effect at maybe 2d4 minutes or more.

Actually, there are real-world animal toxins with onset times on the order of seconds, in a human-sized target. Recovery times, rather than times per day, would probably be better--can use poison N times (probably 2-3), and then takes X hours (or minutes) before it can use it again.

My bigger complaint on the timing isn't the instant onset, it's the consistency: all poisons have instant onset, and secondary damage exactly one minute later. Sure, some poisons should be instant, but many of them should take some time. Likewise, some shouldn't have secondary damage, some should have rapid secondary damage, some should have greatly delayed secondary damage, some should have recurring damage for some time. Partly for realism sake, but mostly for good play: D&D3E poisons don't satisfy a lot of the nifty plot contrivances that they're often used for in fiction. The guy who's gonna die in 3 days if the heroes don't quest for the mcguffin, for starters.

The lack of variety in effects is also a problem in that area. I agree that simple hp damage should be a poison option, as well as ability damage, and other things, too. Toxicant is very cool in this way, though it's more realism than is needed for plot purposes.