D&D (2024) What do you think of the new rules for preparing spells?

[ECMO3]

I think it would be fine IF (and that's a big IF, literally and figuratively) spells get more consistent and interesting upcasting options. So yeah you have to learn a bunch of 1st level spells but they are worth casting using 3rd level slots.

I tend to think the other way. There are tons of great 1st level spells but not many great 2nd or 4th level spells.

 

[delericho]

Two of the casting classes we’ve seen were previously “spells known” casters, but are “prepared” casters in the UA, so it seems likely that they are considering switching all casters to be “prepared” casters. Additionally, instead of preparing a number of spells of any level equal to your level (or half your level for half-casters) plus the relevant casting ability modifier, you instead prepare a number of spells of each level equal to the number of spell slots you have of that level. So, for example, a 5th level bard always prepares 4 first level spells, 3 second level spells, and 2 third level spells. Additionally, so far we have not seen individual class spell lists. Clerics prepare spells from the Divine spell list, Bards prepare Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, and Transmutation spells from the Arcane spell list, and Rangers prepare non-Evocation spells from the Primal spell list. Cleric and Bard also each got a short list of spells that are always prepared for them (bards, for example, got lots of always-prepared healing spells, since healing is a bard thing I guess, and the Arcane spell list doesn’t have any of those).

Thanks for this.

Yeah, it sounds pretty terrible - there's not a single thing there that I would consider an improvement.

 

[Yaarel]

The spell point system that works well for 5e is as follows:

Spell points = level + 1
Spell cost = spell level
All spell points refresh after each Short Rest

For any full caster, spell points are that simple.

For example.

Level 5 Wizard has 6 spell points.
It costs 3 spell points to cast a Fireball.

It works really well, even for the highest spell levels.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Just a nitpick: “total spells prepared” isn’t a thing on the class feature grid for casters who memorize, like clerics and wizards. Plus, it’s not a consistent number since it’s modified by caster stat bonus. So, that’s not the reasoning.

I think I've ranted about this several times and neglected to clearly explain my argument this time.

My point was that, even deciding to use a flat level-based number of spells prepared (which I'm okay with), and even deciding to base it on spell slots (which is arbitrary but whatever), they could just as easily just make it a total number of spells you can prepare based on total spell slots and have a separate column for that. The part I hate is taking away flexibility in the number of spells of each level that can be prepared, and doing it for no good reason.

I suspect just saying you can apply your total spells prepared to whatever levels you want is going to be one of the most common 5.5 house rules (as it avoids the most obnoxious part of the new system without being wildly unbalanced), so I feel like WotC should just print a running total number of spells prepared.

For the record, I’m not a fan of the change either, but having played around 30 years with Vancian magic as part of the game, it’s not a dealbreaker if they keep it.

I mean, I'd think it was dumb if they went back to retro-Vancian style, but I would prefer that to this system of arbitrarily just throwing a cumbersome pseudo-retro-Vancian restriction on top of the current neo-Vancian system for no good reason. There was at least a sliver of a ludonarrative to needing to memorize specific spells. There is no particular story of only being able to prepare x spells of each level based on spell slots for that level, but then being able to use them with those spell slots freely. It's just a game restriction for restriction's sake.

And it rises to dealbreaker for me at present because 5.5 has yet to produce a dealmaker for me.

 

[Horwath]

Personally, I don’t have much skin in this version of Vancian casting or that version. I just don’t really like Vancian casting in general, regardless of how you fiddle with the details of how a caster learns or prepares their Vancian spells. Let’s just make the change to spell points already.

Everyone should use spell points and if they want to limit versatility of spellcasters, go with spells know of sorcerer for all, plus subclass spells known.

Keep Vancian relic in relic editions.

 

[glass]

You literally just look at the Spellcasting page of your character sheet and see “3 first levels, 2 second levels,…” and you prepare those numbers of spells.

Whereas before "you literally just look at the Spellcasting page of your character sheet" and see one number, then prepare* that many spells. Once. Not up to nine times. Going through the same process nine times cannot be easier than doing it once.

It just this weird half measure Vancian, it makes more sense if you actually just go back to Vancian tbh.

That would be a point in its favour in my book, but I suspect it would be a mistake on WotC's part.

(* It still annoys me that they chose to overload the term "prepare" rather than go with the established term "ready" for this kind of casting.)

 

[Lojaan]

This is just going back to how it used to be in 3rd and earlier yeah? Casters had a set number of spells per level and you had to prep them in advance?

 

[delericho]

This is just going back to how it used to be in 3rd and earlier yeah? Casters had a set number of spells per level and you had to prep them in advance?

Unless something was missed, there is one key change: in 3e if you wanted to cast a particular spell twice, you had to prepare it twice.

 

[Lojaan]

Unless something was missed, there is one key change: in 3e if you wanted to cast a particular spell twice, you had to prepare it twice.

Gotcha - so it's like a slightly more flexible version of 3e and earlier spell prep. Thanks!

 

[Reynard]

In the expert classes packet. You’d need to have read the text of the spellcasting feature to have noticed the change, of course.

Read the rules?!? What are you, some sort of GM?