What do you want from a campaign setting?

[jaldaen]

Evocative art, all art pieces done in a similar 'atmosphere', can really give life to a setting. One thing I hate is ugly art or art by very different types of artists, giving me a jumble of impressions. Maybe if the different art styles were used for different regions, types of chapters etc.

I agree wholeheartedly... hopefully I'll find a good artist or two with complimentary styles to what the campaign setting needs.

 

[jaldaen]

See, nothing that complicated. But there are a few settings out there that basically give you a playground with lots of neat things to look at or fight, but never really tell you why they are fighting or the history of this fighting. Yeah, some creatures may be good and evil, but I think it has to come down to more than that. Evil is an inward philosophy. What is the outward reflection of great evil that is the real threat? Petty criminals are evil, but what is the Great Evil out there, and what are they doing, and why? (As the PS example brings to light, it doesn't even have to be Evil. It's just that a good versus evil conflict is the easiest to get PCs to care about.)

Thanks for the examples... and I'll be sure to have a few Great Evils (or Goods) to worry about for you when the campaign setting comes out

 

[jester47]

See "The Wilderlands of High Fantasy," "Players Guide to the Wilderlands" and "City State of the Invincible Overlord".

 

[jaldaen]

One a quarter? Ever been hooked on a setting before? Once a month would be a perfect world. This is what makes WotC who they are, every week you can get something new from them, be it a free small blurb from Ed concerning a wedding in Waterdeep, to the new products each month.

I have indeed been hooked on settings before Birthright, Mystara, and Iron Kingdoms come to mind foremost... I'll be sure to get a good line up of ideas for campaign setting follow-up products together.

Roman leaders knew how to manage the mob, you didn't have to them a loaf of bread often, if you gave them a slice frequently.

Slices frequently... got it!

 

[edbonny]

Novelty

Any setting I ever liked had lots of novelty - new races, classes, themes, forms of magic, etc... Any setting has to have engaging novelty, something that you'd love to get out and roleplay, experience in game, and read up on.

The bad thing about novelty for me is that once you've experienced it, seeing it appear in another setting just doesn't thrill as much.

Here are a few TSR/WotC settings and the new things they had which made "blipped big" on my radar" or were novel but not thrilling.

Eberron - WOW: Warforged, Artificers, Magewrights, lots of low level NPCs, a world weary war finding its way, the Houses, an arcanely infused world; MEH: the way Eberron does drow, dragonmarks (too much like Birthright's blooded abilities), the lightning train (a little too Polar Express)

Forgotten Realms - WOW: rich variety of high-level magic, cool countries, the presence of so many fascinating religions/gods interwoven in everyone's life, the Time of Troubles, loads of epic storylines in novels, memorable NPCs; MEH: the Sea of Fallen Stars and other underwater books, the real world additions like Maztica, the Alaska-like arctic sourcebook with eskimo-like language which seemed like an issue of National Geographic with the names replaced.

Dark Sun - WOW: Psionics for everyone; savage world fallen from grace, elf-eating thri-kreen PCs; elf-eating savage halflings; advanced beings, the Valley of Fire & Dust, lo-tech, no metal, outlawed arcane magic, no water; MEH: The second edition changed the game in scope with lifeshaped things, lush lands outside the boxset that betrayed what the setting was supposed to be all about, thri-kreen that came in a variety of colors, shapes, and purposes.

Birthright: WOW: blooded individuals, that age-old god-war, the unique monster characters, the war game, domain turns, blood silver, tons of interesting nations statted out with maps; MEH: no meh here

Planescape: Planetouched, Factions, faction politics, Sigil, opening up the planes for all level PCs, cant, a place where philosophy ruled; MEH: Sometimes too mysterious for its own good, numerous background story arcs that were hinted at, advanced slowly, or rarely followed up on (although I'd be hard-pressed to list them at the moment. The arcs could also be considered open-ended setting material for DMs to use as they see fit but I wanted to see them spelled out!

 

[Krypter]

Did I mention maps? Maps would be good. Stylized maps, hand-painted or inked, with nice parchment effects, weird little monsters running around on the map, and tiny trees scattered here and there. Not the generic computer-generated maps neither. Those always leave me cold. They may even look pretty, but they've got no soul, and a good campaign setting needs a soul.
For example, the map on the Narnia website is way cool.

http://adisney.go.com/disneypictures/narnia/main.html

 

[gizmo33]

Adventures - I'd like to see a campaign setting that was really a series of adventures that told the story of the world. I suspect this will never happen because I suspect that the bulk of gaming stuff, including campaign worlds, are designed to be read and admired, rather than played. A sort of a fantasy of fantasy gaming, if you will.

Maps?

DM: "You travel 3 days to reach the village"
Player: "Hey, it really sounds like you're consulting a poorly drawn map in order to arrive at that figure. Sheesh, I'm not having fun anymore."

 

[Gansk]

So you prefer a campaign setting with lots of set-up and a general outline of the world's conflicts and then allows you to run with it... what kind of support products would you want for such a setting (Adventures, Regional Guides, etc...)? How much time would you want to elapse before a product was put out that lays out some major changes to the setting? A year, two, five, never?

Adventures, adventures, adventures! I don't have time to create quality adventures on my own. Also Regional Guides that give more intimate detail - the more detail, the more the world comes alive. Of course each regional guide adds more maps!

What about a setting that is highly portable, but with less portable adventures? A setting that allows you to play in it with or without affect on your current campaign (GM's choice), one you can switch to when you don't have all your players together and do not want to push forward with the main campaign, but want to run a short adventure? Would such a setting interest you?

No, I don't run one-shots and I don't want to immerse myself in a setting unless I plan to run a campaign there.

What about a campaign with unique rules that don't carry over to other settings? Rules that only apply while a player is in the setting? This of course means the adventures are designed with those rules in mind and are quite unique to the setting... would you be more or less likely to buy the setting? The adventures? What if the adventures included notes on how to "standardize" the adventure for play without the setting's unique rules?

If you add too many unique rules, it is hard to take a generic module and place it in the setting without a lot of work to give it the same flavor. Likewise, it may be hard to take an adventure written for the setting and remove the setting's flavor to put into another setting. The easy way out is to do what Eberron did - just create a unexplored continent full of dungeons where civilization (and the unique rules of the setting) are not impacting the normal D&D standards. It would be very easy to put the World's Largest Dungeon in Xendrik, but to take an Eberron adventure set in Khorvaire and put it in Greyhawk? Not as easy.

So you would prefer a product of adventure seeds rather than major events... what about one that includes a number of optional major events? What about a product that gives you multiple outcomes for these major events and allows you to introduce them or not as you see fit? So rather than an almanac laying out a year's worth of events, it would be preferable to create an adventure guide that includes the possible major and minor events within the setting (by region) and include notes on adventures leading up to these events or stemming from these events.

What you are asking for is a nightmare as time goes on. DM's will pick and choose among the optional events and play those out, creating an infinite number of alternate futures that your products would have to anticipate in order to have any further relevance. Once again, it is easier to do what Eberron is doing - just list a bunch of adventure hooks at the end of the chapter for each region, then add a few more periodically on a product support website. The hooks do not depend on each other, they try to explore a new aspect of the setting instead. They use a newspaper or 'town crier' format to give a feeling that time is advancing, but the stories are basically brand new.

 

[jaldaen]

Granted, the average peasant's life is going to be similar nearly anywhere, but touching on the kinds of food that they eat, what livelihoods are available to them, is there social mobility, how much does religion play in their day to day existence. Birth ceremonies, marriage ceremonies (do they even have marriage? Are they monogamous?), death rites. Do the different social classes have marked differences in these things? Essays on the sociocultural structure of a society is probably overboard - a lot can be said in a couple paragraph narrative (which I am fond of, if done well) over a straight encyclopedia entry works best.

Thanks for the run down on what you are looking for it'll certainly help me make a decision on what to include in the setting.

I don't have a lot of experience with d20 settings. I think that the legacy of Tolkien has left a very strong mark on fantasy gaming, where there is a tendency to write these long, dry histories with languages and whatnot, include Elves and Dwarves "just because", etc.

This should be quite doable... I'll be sure to give the whys of each major race and element of the campaign setting.

Usually it's the setting text itself that provides the hooks for me... however, as a more direct answer my favorite presentation has always been an adventure seed in a sidebar, that gives a short summary of a potential scenario based on what is being discussed in detail on that page. Having the scenarios in the sidebars allows me to finish reading the main text, and then look at the sidebar without breaking my "rythmn" as it were.

Good point about the scenarios in sidebars being a nice touch to keep the rythmn of reading. I think I've got a few ideas on how to proceed, thanks

 

[jaldaen]

Supplements that advance the history of the world ... I know some will disagree with me here, but I say the way to handle them is to not. Once I buy the campaign it's mine... Now give me lots of seeds, as you say, so I can grow gardens large and small, when and where I want to, with a flexibility that allows my players to create a bunch of brigands or a handfull of heroes and still have places to go, allies to enlist and foes to crush. Introduce a tense situation, and mention two or three ways I might develop it depending on what other elements of the campaign I decide to emphasize in concert with it.

That's the sense I'm getting from others... build the campaign setting with the lots of adventure seeds and impending conflicts and then let the DM decide what course to follow from there.

Yes, I have to have something to hand to the players to introduce them to what's going on ... or at least, what's going on at the surface as seen by the ordinary 1st level adventurer. Hopefully, it also serves as a good intro for me ... just before I open the DM secret book of look how much trouble there is in this world.

So what would you want to see in a player's introduction packet? Races, new rules, condensed history, overview of geography and cultures (with map)? Anything else you would find useful as a player or a GM to have in a player packet for a campaign setting? What about a player's introductory packet as a pre-made product? Would you buy such a thing?

Any one else have comments, suggestions, questions about a campaign setting player packet?