What does "does not stack with" mean?

[Caliban]

No, you aren't getting me. I agree with your assessment of the speed ability itself and it's uses. No problem.

Here is my problem with your theory. You said You still get your normal extra attack from the Speed weapon, you just don't get it again if you attack during the extra partial action from haste.

My response to that? No kidding?! Really!? Never would have though! Why is that my response? Because if you have one speed weapon, it gives you one, and only one, attack per round. So it doesn't make any difference if you use haste for an attack or not. You still only get one attack from one weapon of speed.

This part is elementary and shouldn't even be under scrutiny of any kind (even though my spelling is kind of elementary).

Exactly. And the "does not stack" text was an attempt to make that extra clear, even if you are hasted. This is because the extra partial action from haste acts in many ways like a new "mini-round". They just didn't word it as clearly as they should have.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: What does "does not stack with" mean?

I think the "does not stack" text was an attempt to make it clear that you didn't get to use the Speed ability twice in one round with the same weapon, even if you are hasted.

OK then. Let me hear it. Come on...you can say it. It won't destroy your pride.

 

[kreynolds]

Ding, Ding, Ding! (fork against wine glass).

So is general agreement that if you have 2 speed weapons and 1 hasted action that you could get 3 extra attacks for the round? Cal, I have no real problem with that, I just inherently thought it balanced out that you couldn't use them all in the same round.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What does "does not stack with" mean?

OK then. Let me hear it. Come on...you can say it. It won't destroy your pride.

Err... Say what? I'm confused.

 

[kreynolds]

I guess some people just can't admit when they were wrong about something. I know what parts I was wrong about. But I also know what part you were wrong about. Not worth getting into. I know and that's good enough for me. It was a heck of a lot of fun though, Cal. You pose a really good argument.

But, to my questions. Is the general agreement that if you have 2 speed weapons and 1 hasted action that you could get 3 extra attacks for the round?

 

[kreynolds]

Exactly. And the "does not stack" text was an attempt to make that extra clear, even if you are hasted. This is because the extra partial action from haste acts in many ways like a new "mini-round". They just didn't word it as clearly as they should have.

Alright, alright! I can't resist. Earlier, you gave me an example:

Originally posted by Caliban That is why I believe that it is referring to using the Speed ability during the haste action when it says they don't stack. You still get your normal extra attack from the Speed weapon, you just don't get it again if you attack during the extra partial action from haste. That is what I believe it means when it states that they don't stack.

And I said this:

Originally posted by kreynolds No kidding?! Really!? Never would have though! Why is that my response? Because if you have one speed weapon, it gives you one, and only one, attack per round. So it doesn't make any difference if you use haste for an attack or not. You still only get one attack from one weapon of speed.

Why is all this a big deal to me? Because not once did I ever argue otherwise regarding this point. You just assumed I did and got all carried away with it, making me prove your example to be completely worthless. Why is your example worthless? Because, like I said, it is elementary knowledge regarding how many attacks you get from speed weapons per round.

Get it? Ah, I don't care...I don't actually need you to say..."OK. My bad. I misunderstood what you were saying." But it would be respectable on your part. Oh well. No love loss.

 

[Caliban]

Why is all this a big deal to me? Because not once did I ever argue otherwise regarding this point. You just assumed I did and got all carried away with it, making me prove your example to be completely worthless. Why is your example worthless? Because, like I said, it is elementary knowledge regarding how many attacks you get from speed weapons per round.

Get it? Ah, I don't care...I don't actually need you to say..."OK. My bad. I misunderstood what you were saying." But it would be respectable on your part. Oh well. No love loss.

Well, I can see where you seemed a little rude, and where it looks like you might have misunderstood something I said in an earlier post, but I don't see where you "proved" my statement was "worthless". I don't believe I misunderstood what you were saying (except for your post previous to this one). I just didn't agree with your interpretation of it, and I explained why.

I wasn't referring to your arguements at all in my response to Spatula. I was explaining why I believe they used the phrasing "does not stack with" and what exactly I thought it was in reference too.

In my response to you I never assumed that you thought they could use the speed ability more than once per round, I was explaining why I thought they could still use the speed ability and the haste action in the same round, even though they don't stack. I was also explaining why I think they are using somewhat redundant phrasing there: for most purposes the extra partial action from haste is like a new "mini-round", and they wanted to make it clear that it can't be used to activate the Speed ability. They just didn't make it clear enough, and now the text can be interpreted to mean that being hasted negates the Speed ability. (This is the interpretation that I believe you were using. If it isn't, then I did misunderstand you.)

Keep in mind that this is what I believe the most likely ruling on it will be, based on previous rulings from the Sage regarding Speed Weapons, and based on the text of the ability. This is only my opinion, because I agree that the text is vague enough to be interpreted either way. It is still possible that the Sage would rule that being hasted negates the Speed ability (although I doubt it).

For the record, I believe that if you are using two Speed weapons and are hasted, you will get three extra attacks if you use Two Weapon Fighting and take the Full Attack Action. (One extra attack from each Speed weapon, and one extra attack from haste.)

 

[kreynolds]

For the record, I believe that if you are have two Speed weapons and are hasted, you will get three extra attacks if you use Two Weapon Fighting and take the Full Attack Action. (One extra attack from each Speed weapon, and one extra attack from haste.)

And I agree that this is a possiblity. I am also waiting for confirmation on this. As to everything else, forget it. It's not worth my time.

 

[CRGreathouse]

For the record, I believe that if you are have two Speed weapons and are hasted, you will get three extra attacks if you use Two Weapon Fighting and take the Full Attack Action. (One extra attack from each Speed weapon, and one extra attack from haste.)

I didn't think this was the intent of the rules, but if you say it is, I'm sure you're right.

 

[Uller]

I didn't think this was the intent of the rules, but if you say it is, I'm sure you're right.

I'm agree...I read "...is not cumulative with haste..." as meaning that you cannot gain the benefits of both a Speed Weapon and the haste spell in the same round. Just like you cannot benefit from two haste spells at the same time. Otherwise, I don't see any point to this clause.

So if you've got two speed weapons and are hasted, you may do a full attack with two extra attacks from each or you may take an full attack and and extra partial action(which may be a 5' step + an attack or whatever).