D&D (2024) What does the new DMG say about gods?

[Shiroiken]

I always wondered who canonized Cuthbert as a saint, anyway.

Zygag, of course

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yeah, exactly. I hope this being mentioned in the DMG won't make players assume they can do whatever they want within the game world wothout consequences, something I've seen as expected on Reddit.

Those are exactly the same people who try to trash the place and are shocked, shocked when the guards are called.

If you're a visible heretic that's a matter for the church to deal with just as if you're a visible thief that's for the guard.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Those are exactly the same people who try to trash the place and are shocked, shocked when the guards are called.

If you're a visible heretic that's a matter for the church to deal with just as if you're a visible thief that's for the guard.

As the 2024 DMG says, "You can also decide how NPCs react to a character whose behavior doesn’t square with the ideals implied by the Holy Symbol the character wears." Nothing says it can't be members of the cleric's own church doing the reacting - including powerful, high-level ones.

 

[Yaarel]

It’s not unknown in some religions for priests to force the god to comply.

Thats kinda what "theurgy" means, at least in certain traditions.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Zygag, of course

I have only canonized two people.

St. Cuthbert.
And St. Vincent.


You're welcome.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I’ve ignored the 5e god/quasi deity distinction and definitions for a more Eberron style cosmology I’ve used since 3e.

I like having divinity be ambiguous while in world religions and mythologies be big deals like in Conan stories.

I also like religious themes of heresy and schisms and corrupt priests of good gods being possible plot points.

As a DM I do not want to be the orthodoxy police telling my PCs they are playing their clerics wrong or requiring atonements and changes to their role play to keep their class powers. It is not the play experience I want.

In my setting I have an imperial and religious civil succession war in my Lothian empire with both sides claiming to stand for true LG Lothianism against the corruption of the other side and both sides getting divine power for their clerics and paladins.

Keeping the actual nature of the ascended martyred paladin Lothian ambiguous allows such a backdrop.

I've also gotten milage out of good sects of 'evil' gods who found part of the portfolio useful and ran with it and also pretender gods using good causes to recruit and then indoctrinate.

And then there's the interplay of the two.

In my setting, there's a god whose cover story is being a god of strength with a Might Makes Right message. The lay folk and even lower priests don't know his actual aims is Phyrexian style compleation and his actual dark priests don't know he intends to destroy the world rather than dominate it.

And then there's the trolls. A random troll heard the public pitch about Might Making Right, completely misunderstood, and brough back the message to other trolls that beating strong enemies makes you righteous. Only problem for the bad guy is... the troll was in a region of farming villages beset by bandits. So there's no point in defeating those weak farmers--time to beat up on the bandits and monsters attacking them! And thus was formed the Army of May; a militant faction of trolls dedicated to the primary evil god, dedicated to smacking down anything that threatens the weak and abused, using the powers of the god who secretly wants to murder everyone to do so.

There's a lot of interesting storytelling potential to mine here.

 

[cranberry]

I'll just say I disagree with the 2024 DMG re: deities, and leave it at that.

One thing that I like about 5E is that (with few exceptions) it doesn't give stat blocks to deities. While I did enjoy reading Deities and Demigods as a kid, IMO, gods should be several orders of magnitude in power above mortals, ...even the most power mortals.

I wasn't happy with the Rime of the Frost Maiden because it potentially gives players the idea that they can challenge deities.

IMO, a deity's powers and abilities should be game breaking. They are on a different "tier" of power than mortals after all. They should be able to manipulate reality (within their sphere of influence), and curb stomp mortals with a mere wave of their hand.

Random question - canonically Is Asmodeus a lesser, greater, or demigod (or not one at all)? As a kid, I assumed he was a Satan analog (a greater god), but apparently that's not the case.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Dragonlance shows us the way.

"Whats that crater called?"
"Oh that was Bob."
"..."

Gods on my world kinda operate this way. Notice the the two neatly circular seas. They're results of the two times the gods got really upset...

 

[Henadic Theologian]

The 2024 DMG has a section in the DM's Toolbox chapter entitled "Gods and Other Powers". It has the following sub-sections: Divine Rank, Home Plane and Alignment, Gods and Divine Magic, Divine Knowledge, Divine Intervention, and Creating Religions. There's also a sidebar called "Build Your Own Pantheon".

While this section covers much of the same ground as what was in 2014, it does so in broader strokes and with fewer words.

The sample pantheon included in the book is the Greyhawk pantheon in the Greyhawk gazetteer chapter. The Dawn War pantheon is gone, although some of the gods from that pantheon are mentioned individually in the Lore Glossary.

The glossary includes the following gods (and god-like beings): Bahamut, Corellon, Diancastra, Euryale, Gruumsh, Hadar, Kyuss, Iuz, Moradin, the Raven Queen, Tiamat, and Vecna. EDIT: and Tharizdun!

What are the divine ranks? Is it just God, lesser God, Quasi Deity again, or is it more like the old school Greater God, Intermediate God, Lesser God, Demigod, Quasi Deity?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It’s a bit of a tangent, but I just noticed that the Greyhawk god St Cuthbert is now just Cuthbert. I guess they decided to drop the saint title due to its real world connotations.

I always thought it was weird that he was called saint if he was a god. Saints are people, not gods.