Level Up (A5E) [+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?

[FlyingChihuahua]

The above surprises me. The five senses as correlating with hit points? Constitution?

The five senses seem to overlap more with Intelligence with Perception<->Investigation. Detecting something includes recognizing what one is looking at, and making sense of it.

Or Dexterity, initiative checks, dodging, and precision.



Ultimately, what matters is the actual use during a game. One either notices something or not. Hence it is one check whether Perception or Investigation or Anticipation or Initiative to notice something coming. One check. One ability.

wait why are ya quoting me, I didn't say that.

 

[Minigiant]

The above surprises me. The five senses as correlating with hit points? Constitution?

The five senses seem to overlap more with Intelligence with Perception<->Investigation. Detecting something includes recognizing what one is looking at, and making sense of it.

Organ health.
Almost everything biological in D&D because the brain and muscles are correlated to Constitution.
But an argument could be made for Intelligence as well.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

You mean like Expertise and Jack-of-Trades?

No, those are both stupid.

A multiverse where bards and rogues are the master wrestlers, that can pin pit fiends to the ground at 9th level with impunity is a silly one.

 

[CapnZapp]

(If you're not interested in the concept of an Advanced 5E, this thread isn't for you. Move along. Nothing to see here!)

I used "Advanced" just because AD&D did. That doesn't mean better, but it sounds better than "Crunchy 5E". The working title I have in mind is the '6th World System'.

If you ARE interested in the idea of an Advanced 5E - 5E with a bit more crunch - what features would you want to see in it?

Asking for a friend who is me who might make it.

There are a lot of ideas in this thread, some of them really good.

But most of them will result in a game that decidedly won't be recognizable as 5E.

Those I would file under "another game but not this one" if I were your friend.

Just a thought.

 

[Morrus]

I've thought a but more about my personal list, and this is what I came up with. This is just cherry picking some things that appeal to me personally.

• 100% backwards compatibility with the 5E game you already have
• A new Immortal tier (levels 20-30)
• Fully developed exploration pillar, including journey rules
• Flexible character options and development at every level
• A new approach to your character's heritage
• Martial maneuvers to add more depth to combat
• A simple deadliness toggle to switch between Cinematic and Gritty playstyles
• Varied weapons with a wide range of properties
• A ranger without magic and a full warlord class
• Followers and strongholds

 

[CapnZapp]

a full warlord class

Uh oh. Time to reopen the Warlord subforum...!?

 

[CapnZapp]

[*]Martial maneuvers to add more depth to combat

As something built into the warrior classes, or something built into the base game?

Asking because this can easily make the game come across as "not 5E". I really think a player needs to be able to bring his Champion 5E Fighter into this game without having to use maneuvers, not for the game to be good, but for it to claim 5E compatibility.

I'd make it an optional system (like how you can turn feats and multiclassing on and off) if not making it a part of the Rangers, Fighters, and Barbarians of this game.

Br, z

 

[Helldritch]

I've thought a but more about my personal list, and this is what I came up with. This is just cherry picking some things that appeal to me personally.

• 100% backwards compatibility with the 5E game you already have
• A new Immortal tier (levels 20-30)
• Fully developed exploration pillar, including journey rules
• Flexible character options and development at every level
• A new approach to your character's heritage
• Martial maneuvers to add more depth to combat
• A simple deadliness toggle to switch between Cinematic and Gritty playstyles
• Varied weapons with a wide range of properties
• A ranger without magic and a full warlord class
• Followers and strongholds

Almost a first edition feel isn't it?
Sometimes, I wonder if playing 1ed with the stats, save and AC calculations of 5ed would not be better...

 

[CapnZapp]

As for the Immortal tier, strongly consider the existing game's sparse support of levels 15-20.

To be entirely frank, you could probably move most of the existing high level class abilities down into levels 11-15, and then place all your ideas into the newly emptied levels.

Basically, renaming the fourth tier "Immortal".

That would restore some badly needed "exponentiality" to the upper levels. Where each level keep mattering. Most if not all epic level rules I've seen over the years doesn't achieve much more than ending up with fifteen sparse levels instead of just five.

The fact this would break compatibility with existing tier IV material is in theory a big problem. In practice, there is a negligible amount of official material that would be affected. I really think the benefits would massively overshadow the drawbacks.

 

[schneeland]

Like @CapnZapp said on page 5, one main thing I would be looking for is meaningful choices for level-ups, at least for each tier of play (which would, as a result, require some extensions of the range of mechanics players have access to at certain points in the progression).

Other than that:

• One key thing would be a more nuanced skill system than the one that 5e has (we don't need to go all the way back to 3e, but the 5e system doesn't cut the deal for me)
• Similarly, a good system with more nuance to situational modifiers (again, no need to go back fully to 3e, but more fine-grained than advantage/disadvantage)
• Somewhat extended rules for investigative and social scenarios as well as exploration
• Options for a low(er) fantasy version of play

Regarding compatibility, strict adherence to 5e compatibility would not be required for me. It just needs to be easy enough to convert stuff.

Also, don't be afraid to throw out stuff. The main reason for me would be more meaningful choices, not a plethora of options of which 90% are redundant or crap (I'm looking at you, plethora of 3e books).
I personally would welcome a revision of abilities, but I get that for some people it's important that we stay with the classic 6.

Finally, as someone already mentioned in the beginning, I would love to see better structure and a more concise text.