Level Up (A5E) [+] What features should a "Advanced 5E" have?

[ThatGuySteve]

Skills
Make the "Skills with Different Abilities" variant rule standard. No default X skill with Y ability, player and DM can make a judgement call on a case by case basis.

Prestige Classes
Make them more like Paragon Paths from 4E. No multiclassing. At a certain level you choose one you qualify for and get abilities in addition to class abilities.

Epic Level
Not a huge fan of level 20+ play personally, only played one campaign to 30th level in 4E where epic level was core.

Like the 4E concept of Epic Destiny though. Could be introduced earlier than 20th level though. Goals like become a lich, demigod, dragon (Darksun style).

These might not be strict 'gain this ability at X level', but more of a formal method of identifying to the DM what your character goal is and what steps need to be completed to achieve it.

Eg at 15th level you choose Lich as your Destiny. Your DM now knows they need to seed the following steps through the final levels of play: discover the ritual, craft a phylactry, perform the ritual. Once all steps are done, you gain X, Y, Z.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So it rarely means to "look intimidating".

Well, you see, in my personal experience as a DM (so YMMV), Intimidation attempt that would require a roll are more often than not active physical threats or threats of some physical unpleasantness. Now, instilling fear by messing with the brain of a target with threat of social, political or economic repercussions can be a way, sure, but I'd make it (again, at my table) a Deception roll, because it involves more the actual ''mind game'' than the truth behind the threat.

Actually, I once had Deception/bluff written as Intelligence (Disguise), to add both the obfuscating of the truth and oneself with a costume and forging stuff in the same general skill.

AiME has the Riddle skill that is used both to lie, confuse and deal with actual riddles and puzzle, so that could be another way.

 

[Haldrik]

Well, you see, in my personal experience as a DM (so YMMV), Intimidation attempt that would require a roll are more often than not active physical threats or threats of some physical unpleasantness. Now, instilling fear by messing with the brain of a target with threat of social, political or economic repercussions can be a way, sure, but I'd make it (again, at my table) a Deception roll, because it involves more the actual ''mind game'' than the truth behind the threat.

I can see that, Intimidation being strictly Physical Intimidation (with Large gaining advantage?). If that is the case, then "frightening" by means of more abstract methods, would strictly be Persuasion. Which, now that I think about it, might make more sense anyway.

Actually, I once had Deception/bluff written as Intelligence (Disguise), to add both the obfuscating of the truth and oneself with a costume and forging stuff in the same general skill.

No problem with Intelligence for Deception! I am totally on board with that.

For me, I think about reallife archeological forgeries. It takes extreme academic expertise to be able to get away with a forgery. Similarly, in a D&D context, an Illusion requires Intelligence. As does creating a disguise that can pass scrutiny. Making up a believable lie that survives scrutiny. And so on! It is all about Intelligence.

AiME has the Riddle skill that is used both to lie, confuse and deal with actual riddles and puzzle, so that could be another way.

Riddles to lie and confuse, and to do riddles and puzzles? Seems like an application of Intelligence (Investigation).

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Riddles to lie and confuse, and to do riddles and puzzles? Seems like an application of Intelligence (Investigation).

Which I no longer have! because dumb me merged it with Perception as the Awareness skill!

That's the thing with messing with a system: you ''fix'' one thing, ''break'' another. You should see me dealing with the Wi-Fi at home!

 

[Haldrik]

Which I no longer have! because dumb me merged it with Perception as the Awareness skill!

That's the thing with messing with a system: you ''fix'' one thing, ''break'' another. You should see me dealing with the Wi-Fi at home!

Still, when Intelligence includes both sensory perceptiveness and investigative comprehension, it works well as a single skill, Awareness.

In any case, Intelligence is the go-to.

 

[cbwjm]

I was thinking about races and about how to make them a bit more interesting with a few more options for an advanced 5e and I think I would go with something like the following.

Races have the following ability score increases

• +2 to a specific ability score. This represents the score that most typically identifies the race. Dwarves are hardy, elves and halflings are dexterous, half-orcs and dragonborn are strong.
• Each race receives an additional +2 or two +1s to add to different abilities (much like a regular ASI on level up, this is the choice of the player, for even more customisation, this could be replaced with a feat, a high elven wizard might start with the keen mind or even the prodigy feat to begin with expertise in arcana)

Subraces now provide racial powers that are typical for the subrace. A high elf gets a cantrip, a wood elf is able to hide while lightly obscured, a hill dwarf receives additional hit points, etc. Subraces can also include an additional note for which explains their typical ability score increase. A high elf might have something along the lines of "High elves tend to value learning and will typically increase their Intelligence score". This isn’t a hard and fast rule, just a suggestion for classic subraces.

A subrace is now similar to the following, with a couple of options. Note that I beefed up the elven weapon training a bit, if chosen the elf using their elven weapons rolls a minimum of a 2 for damage.

High Elf
High elves value learning and tend to master the basics of magic. In some elven strongholds, the people are trained in weapons for the defence of the stronghold, in others, they are focused on learning skills and tools of trade.

In addition to the standard elven abilities, a high elf has the following racial abilities.

High Elf Standard Abilities
Cantrip. You know one cantrip of your choice from the wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it.
Extra Language. You can speak, read, and write one extra language of your choice.

High Elf Optional Abilities (choose one)

• Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, and longbow. Whenever you roll damage when using one of these weapons you can treat a roll of 1 as a 2.
• Glantrian High Elf Weapon Training. The elves of Glantri favour the rapier and the sabre (scimitar) as melee weapons of choice, you have proficiency with the rapier, sabre (scimitar), shortbow, and longbow. Whenever you roll damage when using one of these weapons you can treat a roll of 1 as a 2. (I added this as an example of how high elves from different regions might favour different weapons)
• Skilled. You have proficiency with one skill and tool of your choice.
  
  
  
  

 

[Haldrik]

@vincegetorix

By the way, the vague "intuition" checks, work better as straightforward Lore checks. So even "uncanny" "psychic" discernment is possible, if the character is generally aware of the subject matter to begin with. So, intuition too is Intelligence.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

THAC0 OR BUST!!!

 

[Haldrik]

@vincegetorix

The discussion about Intelligence=awareness and Charisma=social, makes me think of psionic classes.

Psion (Charisma) is about Telepath, Communication, Empathy, Charm, Frighten, Domination, Dream, etcetera.
Psion (Intelligence) is about Prescient, Clairvoyance, Outofbody, Teleportation, Time.

Both approaches use Wisdom as mental defense.



I am unsure which following abilities correspond, but:

Psion (Charisma) could be Telekinete, Force, Fly, Force Construct, Magic Energy, Ether, and maybe dabble in Elementalism (like pyrokinesis).
Psion (Intelligence) could be Shifter, Psychometabolism, Shapeshift, Heal, Ki, Wuxia.



So, the psionic class will be mental abilities and tends toward themes.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

@vincegetorix

By the way, the vague "intuition" checks, work better as straightforward Lore checks. So even "uncanny" "psychic" discernment is possible, if the character is generally aware of the subject matter to begin with. So, intuition too is Intelligence.

Maybe Awareness could include said intuition and gut feelings, you know when you unconsciously notice a hundred small thing and compute them to get the ''right answer''.