What gets me playing Draw Steel and not Pathfinder 2e?

[zakael19]

I’m looking forward to seeing how quickly rounds resolve. I find another part of keeping attention on the game is having interesting things to see & chances to contribute on a consistent order.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I’m looking forward to seeing how quickly rounds resolve. I find another part of keeping attention on the game is having interesting things to see & chances to contribute on a consistent order.

Though that's always one of those things that turns, in part, on group size and decisiveness.

 

[ffanxii4ever]

Plus NO multiclassing! Yay!

There actually kinda is, but it's not a casual thing that you can just hop into. If you complete the Learn from a Master project, you can learn one Signature Ability from another class, but that is your character spending a pretty significant amount of time learning from an NPC to get a tiny bit of flavor from another class. Plus, there is the Theoretical Warrior Title that gives you one heroic ability from another class, but it requires a Learn From a Master project, and the Master Librarian Title (which in turn requires the Ancient Loremaster Title). Ultimately, if you wanted to (for example) play a Green Elementalist that wants to learn more of how to channel a Fury's Ferocity, they could (probably also aiming for the Armed and Dangerous Title to gain the ability to use kits), but it would take significant in-game effort and undoubtably be an in-character goal.

 

[CptMuffin]

It’s doable, but you’re basically running a side quest for one ability.

 

[Neonchameleon]

And now they have to have the "perfect" distribution of terrain

Nah. They just need to not fight in empty featureless spaces. The terrain just needs to include stock features like walls or trees, or even a dockside, camp fire, or latrine. Things appropriate for the environment sprinkled around. Making use of them is up to the PCs. Just so long as there's something to push people of/on/over/into

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'd buy that more if I thought the late-period simplified classes were actually as functional as the earlier engaged classes; often they weren't, sometimes in attempts to do so they were too much so.

Most failed in Paragon tier. Some were better than others and yes they were very much not achieving a 100% success rate (I don't think I ever saw an Essentials Cleric in play). But seem were good

And, to be blunt, not all games are for all people.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't broaden things as far as practical.

That doesn't mean if you're trying for a one-size-fits-all game

I've yet to see one of those things. But any class based RPG should have options for casual players.

 

[Retreater]

Nah. They just need to not fight in empty featureless spaces. The terrain just needs to include stock features like walls or trees, or even a dockside, camp fire, or latrine. Things appropriate for the environment sprinkled around. Making use of them is up to the PCs. Just so long as there's something to push people of/on/over/into

From past examples, most of even WotC's official 4e modules are slogs of interesting combats. Paizo uses tiny maps inappropriate for tactical combat (consider Abomination Vaults' rooms that can't even house the monsters supposedly encountered in them.)
If the two biggest RPG companies' professional writers struggle to make interesting encounters, what hope does a time-strapped hobbyist GM have?

 

[CommodoreKong]

consider Abomination Vaults' rooms that can't even house the monsters supposedly encountered in them.

Our group calls that module The Abomination Closets.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Nah. They just need to not fight in empty featureless spaces. The terrain just needs to include stock features like walls or trees, or even a dockside, camp fire, or latrine. Things appropriate for the environment sprinkled around. Making use of them is up to the PCs. Just so long as there's something to push people of/on/over/into

Yeah, there's a considerable difference between "Must have X items with X spacing" and "To get value out of the system you have to have something beyond a featureless plane." (Not that the latter is nonexistant as a thing, but honestly, it not what you usually expect; even most deserts and, well, planes have some objects scattered about them. The Bonneyville Salt Flats are distinctive for a reason.).

 

[Thomas Shey]

Most failed in Paragon tier. Some were better than others and yes they were very much not achieving a 100% success rate (I don't think I ever saw an Essentials Cleric in play). But seem were good

Well, obvious I can't make claims with certainty about every one of them; I can only go by the couple I saw in play and the ones I read in any detail, and even the latter has to be taken with a grain of salt by its nature.

This doesn't mean you shouldn't broaden things as far as practical.

Actually, sometimes I think you very much shouldn't. If you're trying for a particular play style, try for it. Not every tool is, or should be a Swiss Army Knife, and not every RPG needs to be aimed at serving all purposes. This goes in both directions; some games aim at maximum speed and minimum handling time; they probably shouldn't be trying to catch my attention because it'd just compromise their primary purpose.

I've yet to see one of those things. But any class based RPG should have options for casual players.

Again, I really don't think so. Some are simply not intended for casual players. There's no reason that should be less true than with any other kind of game, just because its a cooperative game. That's not gatekeeping; its just having a design intent and sticking to it.