D&D General What if the Wind Dukes of Aaqa were actually Djinn?

[dave2008]

If you are using the Fizban’s First World as part of your creation mythos, Bahamut predates all other gods (except Tiamat),

Not quite true:

1. Bahamut and Tiamat are not gods but primordial dragons per Fizban's (& 2024 core).
2. Bahamut (& Tiamat) didn't predate the gods per Fizban's, they were just the first entities to make a material world. So you could say they predate the gods to the material plane, but not in the multiverse

 

[dave2008]

My Mythos does have the Sumerian style Tiamat as the first power in the cosmos, so maybe they could be ties with Bahamut.

I will strongly consider.

That makes a lot of sense. Of possible importance: I major factor in Marduk defeating Tiamat was using "arrows of wind" to force open her mouth and slay her by throwing is spear down her throat. I could see some version of this being a part of your dawn war with wind dukes playing a significant role

 

[Gradine]

 

[Amphytrion]

Not quite true:

1. Bahamut and Tiamat are not gods but primordial dragons per Fizban's (& 2024 core).
2. Bahamut (& Tiamat) didn't predate the gods per Fizban's, they were just the first entities to make a material world. So you could say they predate the gods to the material plane, but not in the multiverse

There is no exclusivity to (1). They can be both. Bahamut and Tiamat are both clearly gods per the 2024 PHB; here’s an excerpt from the dragonborn entry: “One story holds that these eggs were blessed by the dragon gods Bahamut and Tiamat”. The Lore Glossary in the DMG also makes this explicit, names them gods, and even highlights typical worshippers.

Similarly, many gods are also categorized under other terms as well, even if you just take the 2024 books into account. Tharizdun is both a god and an elder evil, for example.

As for (2), Bahamut and Tiamat fashioned the First World, and it was only afterwards that the other gods appeared and asked for a piece of it. I suppose it depends on how you interpret the tale, and you could say the Outer Planes existed first, but I don’t see the point of regressing pre-Creation. For all intents and purposes, they were the first movers.

I don’t think the actual, precise canon matters to this thread, however, as it is just aiding the OP in fitting the Wind Dukes in his original cosmology. I do not wish to derail it.

Since OP is using a more Sumerian take on Tiamat, I would suggest making Tiamat and Bahamut an unified entity, split by discord by some event early on. Tweaking the First World myth, maybe the other gods show up and ask for a place for their own creations, and Tiamat is against it while Bahamut is not. Perhaps it’s Corellon, planting the World Tree, and Bahamut defends him while Tiamat rages in fury. There’s lots of room to play with it.

 

[dave2008]

There is no exclusivity to (1). They can be both. Bahamut and Tiamat are both clearly gods per the 2024 PHB; here’s an excerpt from the dragonborn entry: “One story holds that these eggs were blessed by the dragon gods Bahamut and Tiamat”. The Lore Glossary in the DMG also makes this explicit, names them gods, and even highlights typical worshippers.

Similarly, many gods are also categorized under other terms as well, even if you just take the 2024 books into account. Tharizdun is both a god and an elder evil, for example.

I think you are misunderstanding the text. Here is the quote from the DMG:

Bahamut (ba-HA-mutt) is one of the primordial dragons who (along with Tiamat) is said to have created the First World. For practical purposes, he is a god—ageless and immortal—who has dwelled in Mount Celestia (see chapter 6) since the destruction of the First World.

You don't say for "practical purposes, he is a god..." if he is explicitly a god. You would just say he is a god. This is the same language the use in Fizban's were they are even more explicit that they are not gods:

Bahamut and Tiamat, the primordial dragons and the purported creators of the First World, are the closest things to gods among dragonkind. Since they share the same fundamental connection to the Material Plane as their dragon offspring, Bahamut and Tiamat are ontologically distinct from the gods that hail from the Outer Planes. But for practical purposes, they are divine—worshiped by mortal creatures,

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Back in the 2e Tales of the Infinite Staircase, I had the idea that the Wind Dukes of Aaqa were behind the Iron Shadow (an infection of law that drains away creativity) that was causing all those problems.

 

[Marandahir]

I think you are misunderstanding the text. Here is the quote from the DMG:

Bahamut (ba-HA-mutt) is one of the primordial dragons who (along with Tiamat) is said to have created the First World. For practical purposes, he is a god—ageless and immortal—who has dwelled in Mount Celestia (see chapter 6) since the destruction of the First World.

You don't say for "practical purposes, he is a god..." if he is explicitly a god. You would just say he is a god. This is the same language the use in Fizban's were they are even more explicit that they are not gods:

Bahamut and Tiamat, the primordial dragons and the purported creators of the First World, are the closest things to gods among dragonkind. Since they share the same fundamental connection to the Material Plane as their dragon offspring, Bahamut and Tiamat are ontologically distinct from the gods that hail from the Outer Planes. But for practical purposes, they are divine—worshiped by mortal creatures,

What makes a God a God and not something else? How is Asmodeus a God and an Arch-Devil? Is Orcus a God named Tenebrous? Were Moradin and Corellon et al mortal beings in the First World who became Gods? Or are Gods a species of Celestial just with nigh-omnipotent power?

There aren't right or wrong answers to these questions – the answer is particular to what works for your game.

 

[dave2008]

What makes a God a God and not something else? How is Asmodeus a God and an Arch-Devil? Is Orcus a God named Tenebrous? Were Moradin and Corellon et al mortal beings in the First World who became Gods? Or are Gods a species of Celestial just with nigh-omnipotent power?

There aren't right or wrong answers to these questions – the answer is particular to what works for your game.

Of course, I was just talking about what the current lore is in D&D. I am all for making your own lore ( I do it myself), but I think it is interesting to know what the current lore is.

Currently in D&D , based on the descriptions in Fizban's and the DMG (at least):

1. What makes a God a God and not something else? "...worshiped by mortal creatures, able to grant cleric spells to their followers, and both ageless and immortal." and "...hail from the Outer Planes." (from FToD)
2. How is Asmodeus a God and an Arch-Devil? He is not. He is just an Archdevil with power like a lesser god: ..."Asmodeus is the supreme ruler of all devils and wields the power of a lesser god." (from 2014 MM & 2024 DMG)
3. Is Orcus a God named Tenebrous? We don't know for sure as I don't think Tenebrous is mentioned in 5e. However, I would guess demon lords fall into a similar category to archdevils and primordial dragons. Potentially god like, but not gods.
4. Were Moradin and Corellon et al mortal beings in the First World who became Gods? That does not appear to be the case based on the 5e lore in Fizban's and the DMG, but I wouldn't say we have definite info on this as I don't think these gods are mentioned by name in the Elegy of the First World. It appears the gods came from somewhere else: "...sing of the outsiders, war-bringer gods with their mortal adherents; Teeming, they came to the First World, seeking a home for their legions of followers." (From FToD). Notice the gods came seeking a home for their followers, not for themselves, and are outsiders to the first world.
5. Or are Gods a species of Celestial just with nigh-omnipotent power? That seems like a pretty good description based on item #1 above. Though it may not be whole accurate.

 

[TiQuinn]

Granted their descriptions do vary to a certain extent, but both were large muscular humanoids from the early days.

Wind Dukes could have been a Lawful faction of the genies that sided against Chaos in the Dawn War (My Dawn War was Law versus Chaos) while the other genies were on the Chaos side.

How we got to CG djinn nowadays is a question.

Opinion: Interesting change in lore or too contrived?

I like it, and I feel stupid for not having thought about it before. I think it brings a distant reference from D&D lore that seems disconnected and makes it something I can understand and communicate to players better. It immediately enriches the lore IMO.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Wind Dukes could have been a Lawful faction of the genies that sided against Chaos in the Dawn War.

Opinion: Interesting change in lore or too contrived?

I considered this back in the AD&D days. The Rod of Seven Parts is one of my favorite artifacts, and the three sentences of lore about the Wind Dukes gave ma a lot of design space.