D&D 5E What is +1 Strength worth?

[Crimson Longinus]

That's much harder to model, unless you have an estimate for how often the need for those other stats comes up. It's true that the worse you are at something, the more benefit you get from the +1. So if you think you're going to face a lot of fear checks, or even if it's just really important to your character concept that you succeed at those fear checks, then it makes sense to invest in Wis.

The point of my sim wasn't to argue that Str is better than the other attributes. I just wanted to add some data to the argument about the impact of getting a 16 in your primary stat.

So you have proven that a better stat is better than a worse stat? I’m not sure that this is terribly unexpected…

 

[Bill Zebub]

So you have proven that a better stat is better than a worse stat? I’m not sure that this is terribly unexpected…

I mean, it should be obvious that the point of exercise was to answer how much better, in an easily understood way, and in a way that can be compared to other differences (e.g. bless, or Action Surge.)

But I get the sense you know that, and you have your own reasons for pissing on this thread. That's ok.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

- "Well, however much difference it is, I'm probably going to make a LOT more attack rolls than intimidation rolls, so Str is more useful."
- "I don't really care. I just want 12 Cha."

Both are totally valid.

I’d like to point out that the number of rolls you make is not a good way to compare value of stats. One successful charisma roll might prevent an entire combat.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I mean, it should be obvious that the point of exercise was to answer how much better, in an easily understood way, and in a way that can be compared to other differences (e.g. bless, or Action Surge.)

But I get the sense you know that, and you have your own reasons for pissing on this thread. That's ok.

I don’t think your test can be reasonably said to answer the question as it doesn’t measure what the PCs actually do in the game. Difference in rounds taken to defeat an average level appropriate foe would be more useful.

 

[Maxperson]

So let me get this straight. D&D 5E is the most successful version of any TTRPG ever, but "people" don't like it? Who are these people going "this is terrible, you really need to try it and join my Thursday game!"

Well, he did admit to writing these posts after two shots of tequila and while being half asleep.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I don’t think your test can be reasonably said to answer the question as it doesn’t measure what the PCs actually do in the game. Difference in rounds taken to defeat an average level appropriate foe would be more useful.

That has been performed many times, and doesn't even require a computer (which makes it less fun for me), but some readers dismiss that as irrelevant, for reasons such as "You won't be fighting it alone." So I was trying something new.

But, here, let's try it:

Bandit Captain. AC 15. 65 HP.

Starsky: 55% chance to hit, average damage 6.5, DPR 3.575. Rounds to kill: 18.2
Hutch: 60% chance to hit, average damage 7.5, DPR 4.5. Rounds to kill: 14.5

 

[Maxperson]

the only problem I have is 'when all else is equal'

does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 con?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 dex?
does a fighter is +1 str do better or worse then one with +1 wis?
(I will leave Int and Cha out of the equation.)

You're leaving the two best stats out of the equation!!!

Wisdom is better than strength. Insight, perception and survival can shift the course of campaigns and often have large impacts on the game. Killing one creature a little bit faster every 2.5 to 5 fights.....................not so much. Strength vs con or dex is just circumstantial. If you're getting beat to hell or making lots of con saves, con will be better. If need to be quick or balance, dex will be better.

 

[Maxperson]

I’d like to point out that the number of rolls you make is not a good way to compare value of stats. One successful charisma roll might prevent an entire combat.

One successful charisma roll can persuade the king to send his army in to clear out the orcs. One successful hit with a slightly higher strength MIGHT kill one orc.

 

[Bill Zebub]

One successful charisma roll might prevent an entire combat.

Yeah, that's true, it might. Then again, killing that boss on round 3, instead of leaving him with 4 HP, "might" save you from a TPK. Making that fear save might do the same thing. Proficiency in water vehicles might let you reach the village in time to save it from destruction. The nice thing about D&D is that you can make up these "what ifs" all day long in order to justify your preferences, all of which are correct.

I don't find that particular game to be very useful or insightful, but YMMV. If it's the form of analysis you prefer, you could start a thread on that.

 

[FrogReaver]

Was 2nd wind and/or subclass features factored in?

Was an alternate racial bonus given and it’s impact measured?

I expect +1 initiative or +1 con could easily swing the results to the other fighters favor.

Multiple encounters per day could as well - where the randomness of hitdice recovery can easily overcome the difference in attacks.

One thing I don’t buy is that the action surge fighter is generally worse. That finding was a result of pushing AC high instead of taking the dueling fighting style IMO. In general an extra action is like having an extra round of combat. The impact there is going to be much greater than +1 str unless the battle goes on for a large number of rounds.

In this case it would as high ac and low damage setups push this fight to last well over 10 rounds.

Take this encounter to level 5 or 6 and I think you’ll find action surge makes a huge difference.