What Is an Experience Point Worth?

It seems like a simple question, but the way you answer it may, in effect, determine the metaphysics of your game. Many RPGs use some sort of "experience point" system to model growth and learning. The progenitor of this idea is, of course, Dungeons & Dragons; the Experience Point (XP) system has been a core feature of the game from the beginning.


Yet what exactly an experience point is remains unclear.

Think about it: can anyone earn an XP under the right circumstances? Or must one possess a class? If so, what qualifies an individual for a class? The 1st-edition Dungeon Master’s Guide specifies that henchmen earn 50 percent of the group’s XP award. In other words, they get a full share awarded, but then only "collect" half the share. Where does the other half go? Did it ever exist in the first place?

These esoteric questions were highlighted for me recently when I recreated a 20-year-old D&D character from memory for a new campaign I’m playing in. All I could remember of this character from my high school days was her race and class (half-elf Bladesinger, because I liked the cheese, apparently) and that the campaign fizzled out after only a handful of sessions. If I made it to level 2 back then, I couldn’t rightly say.

I asked my Dungeon Master (DM)—the same fellow who had run the original game for me back in the days of the Clinton administration—whether I could start a level ahead, or at least with a randomly-determined amount of XP (say, 200+2D100). Being the stern taskmaster that he is, he shot down both suggestions, saying instead that I’d be starting at 0 XP and at level 1, just like the rest of the party. As justification, he said that my character had amassed 0 XP for this campaign.

As the character probably only had a few hundred XP to her name to begin with, I let the matter slide. But it did get me thinking: do Experience Points only exist within the context of individual campaigns? Was my DM onto something?

This sort of thinking can in turn lead down quite a rabbit hole. Are classes themselves an arbitrary construct? Do they exist solely for players, or are non-player characters (NPCs) also capable of possessing classes and levels? Different editions of D&D have presented different interpretations of this question, from essentially statting up all NPCs as monsters, with their own boutique abilities (as in the earliest iterations of the game), to granting NPCs levels in "non-adventuring classes" (the famous 20th-level Commoner of 3rd-edition days).

The current edition of D&D has come back around to limiting classes and XP awards to player-characters only—which brings us back to our original question: are Experience Points, like character classes, meant to function solely as an abstract game mechanic, or are they an objective force within the game world? How do you, the reader at home, treat XP in your campaigns?

contributed by David Larkins
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
technically it was 1xp per gp value of non-magical treasure, totalled. (eg, coin, gems, jewelry...)

so a sack of 1000cp was still worth +1 xp.
Yep - and in true 1e style if one of those c.p. fell out of the sack en route back to town then no xp for you when you get there. :)

That said, I've been playing and DMing 1e for ages and have never used the xp-for-gp rule. This does lead to more monster killing, to be sure, but it also leads to a much slower-advancing (and thus longer-lasting) game.
 

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Celebrim

Legend
It is worth whatever fraction of worth having an additional level is worth. So, if your approach to the game is that leveling up is cheap or worthless, then XP isn't worth very much at all. If levels are granted, there is no value to XP. If levels are earned, then its the most precious commodity you can have.

As for what XP means, it seems to represent both a sort of 'spiritual vitality' which can be removed or spent and which presumably increases the characters lucky, providence, resilience and so forth, and also an abstract marker of having learned or grown in skill based on having achieved something worthwhile and difficult.
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
That works for skills, you're quite right.

But levels?

It comes down to this: if Richard had got up to 10th-level Fighter at the peak of his 4-year adventuring career and then retired at age 27 to open a pub (because all retired characters open a pub; it's part of the Code, don't'cha know) how long does it take for that 10th level to in effect become 9th, or 6th, or fade away to nothing? Corollary question: how much training and practice does Richard need to put in to slow or prevent this decay, should he so desire?

Lanefan

I was always under the impression that in DnD, in general, things got tougher the older they are.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I was always under the impression that in DnD, in general, things got tougher the older they are.
Mpst monsters seem to work this way, yes.

But people? I've had jobs and skills (and played sports) in the past that were I suddenly dropped back into that mileiu now I wouldn't have a clue what to do - I didn't need those skills anytime since, so I've largely forgotten them. I think most people tend to be like this...so why not characters?
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Mpst monsters seem to work this way, yes.

But people? I've had jobs and skills (and played sports) in the past that were I suddenly dropped back into that mileiu now I wouldn't have a clue what to do - I didn't need those skills anytime since, so I've largely forgotten them. I think most people tend to be like this...so why not characters?

But did you improve in your jobs and skills as a result of the XP taken from defeating your enemies? Maybe you dont lose that type of XP as you get older.
 

Mpst monsters seem to work this way, yes.

But people? I've had jobs and skills (and played sports) in the past that were I suddenly dropped back into that mileiu now I wouldn't have a clue what to do - I didn't need those skills anytime since, so I've largely forgotten them. I think most people tend to be like this...so why not characters?


D&D and reality can be a tough fit sometimes :) I've always attributed it to different underlying rules / assumptions. Anyway, did it take you as long to recover those skills as it took to learn them the first time? Or were you just "blowing off the rust" and returning to old patterns? Of course, you could argue that their level / skill is declining (but not gone)... well, lets just settle for D&D is different. I've always told my players it looks like real life, but it's not (hence Dragons, magic, etc.). Skill may not depart / degrade once acquired in a D&D world the way it does in real life.
 


Jhaelen

First Post
Experience is a measure of getting better at the abilities that you use all the time. In real life , people get better at their jobs and level up (i.e. Get pay raises) as they do. Although jobs are nearly always annual times to level up, characters will improve once they've used their skills enough.
I disagree pretty much completely. It's always tricky to compare RPG mechanics to real-life, but imho you're getting several things mixed-up here:
- the measure of my skills represents my experience, not the other way around.
- getting a raise typically has nothing to do with your skills. It's either automatic (representing the general expectation that time spent in a job means you've become more experienced) or in anticipation of an improvement in your abilities (see the Peter Principle).
- in real-life there are no levels. Improvement is something that happens all the time, in small, unmeasurable increments.
 

Redthistle

Explorer
Supporter
"Mommy, Greebzz said I was worthless."
"Oh, don't listen to him. One day you will grow up to be a strong warrior who goes out raiding the local human villages of livestock, ale, and gold. Other kobolds will be proud of you."
The boy's eyes gleam with pride as his mother continues.
"And then a group of four or five 'civilized' folk will sweep through our caves slaughtering us to last kobold."
"So, ultimately, I am worth nothing."
"Oh, no, child," she says cupping his chin in her hand. "Those civilized folk are only killing you because you are worth 5 or 6 experience points to each of them. So you see, you are not worthless."
"I'm worth ten and ten again x-spear-ee-ants points."
"25 or so, yes."

Priceless. My first, best laugh of the day!
 

pemerton

Legend
In practice, I find it best to view XP as a pacing mechanic

<snip>

XP has a strong secondary use as an incentive: if the DM wants the PCs to engage in some fun activity, make it worth XP, and players will pursue that activity.
I think it is important to keep a game's reward structure transparent and easy to understand so players know the specific goals they should be shooting for in their play.

One of the issues I have with games like D&D is the way larger numbers of experience points and lack of knowledge of how many a given encounter, milestone, etc. is worth makes it almost impossible to effectively reason about and make informed decisions.
XP work differently in different systems.

In 4e D&D XP are primarily a pacing mechanism: each 60 to 90 minutes of play should earn about a tenth-of-a-level worth of XP (this becomes almost tautological once you include the XP-for-time-spent-free-roleplaying option in DMG2). It is misleading for the DMG to describe them as a reward, given that to "earn" them all you have to do is play the game (by engaging the situations the GM frames the PCs into). The actual rewards of 4e play - as in, the reasons that playing it might be worthwhile - are (a) the increase in mechanical complexity that comes about with level gain, and (b) the changes in the fiction that result from (i) moving through the tiers of play, and (ii) the details of the play of a particular game.

It's interesting that, because (a) is easily seen as a burden rather than a reward by many would-be players, it is possible to recalibrate the fiction of 4e so that the fiction escalates without the mechanics becoming more complex. The Neverwinter supplement takes this approach.

Conversely, if (b) is not present in a 4e campaign - ie the fiction does not change - then there is a lot of evidence that many would-be players don't find (a) very rewarding in and of itself. The evidence I'm referring to is the general disdain that is shown for the published 4e modules - especially the first run of them - which reflect the mechanical escalation but have only a veneer of development in the fiction.

XP obviously play a very different role in classic D&D (OD&D, Gygaxian AD&D, Moldvay Basic, etc). You don't accrue XP just by playing - you actually have to make skilled (or perhaps lucky) choices to earn them, and when you do the reward is power-up for the PC. It's obviously much closer to arcade-game type "who's the highest scorer" gaming. The fun of the game is in making the choices; having a higher XP total for your PC shows that you're better (or luckier).

Cortex+ Heroic (Marvel Heroic RP, and the Fantasy Hack variant) use individual character milestones to award XP - in other words, making particular character choices earns XP, on a sliding scale that culminates in a character-defining moment (eg Wolverine earns 1 XP every time he identifies another character as an old ally or an old enemy; and 10 XP when an old enemy becomes an ally, or vice versa). XP can be spent on PC power-ups, which are more modest than D&D level up but not negligible. So players are incentivised to explore and in some ways develop their PCs' characters in the course of play.

Burning Wheel doesn't use XP at all, but players have Beliefs and earn "artha" (= fate points) by pursuing their Beliefs, or (in some circumstances) dramatically breaking from them. In BW it's also impossible to advance your character without trying stuff that is almost, or even literally, impossible to achieve by ordinary means, and in those circumstances artha spend is what can make success possible. So Beliefs work something like milestones in Cortex+ Heroic, although with more subtlety (eg players can rewrite Beliefs largely at will, and any PC has 3 Beliefs at one given time). Tthere is more dynamism and conflict in BW character development than in Cortex+, which makes sense - BW aims at dramatic intensity, whereas Cortex+ is pretty light-hearted as befits a supers-oriented system).

I don't really understand the point of XP in 2nd ed AD&D, 3E D&D or 5e D&D - it's not pacing like in 4e (as it does not accrue simply via play), but nor does it seem like a measure of demonstrated skill in play as per classc D&D, given it is earned mostly by defeating monsters in encounters that the GM frames the PCs into. I'd have to leave it others to try and say what coherent role it might be playing.
 

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