D&D General what is the difference between magic and psionics?

[DMZ2112]

Psionics is the internal power of the mind and will affecting self, other minds and perception to the extent that perceived reality can manifest externally.

Magic is the willful manipulation of external energies that permeate the dimensional matrix of reality

Both require a will full act to cause change and thus often overlap

Just wanted to say this is a good, informative, concise response, and I even like it.

The problem with psionics in any setting that already has magic is the overlap. Magic should be able to do everything psionics can do, because the mind, will, and body are by definition part of the dimensional matrix of reality.

Eliminating that overlap is step one for game design. Either different power sources need to have completely distinct in-universe effects, or they need to have completely distinct mechanical implementations.

At the end of the day, it's about feel. If psions and mages feel different, that's all that matters, and if they don't, you get forum threads about your game filled with snide responses like this one.

 

[cbwjm]

I feel like 2e psi vs magic felt different to each other. 3e felt much like an alternate form of spellcasting, something about using the 9 levels for the powers helped cement it as just that. 4e though brought a nice alternative to psi powers making it feel different again. The aborted mystic was also quite good in my opinion, clearly it wasn't quite there for most people but I liked that you picked a few disciplines and then unlocked more powers as you levelled.

 

[Composer99]

An answer that is both facile and earnest is "the difference is what you want it to be for your system and/or setting".

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Psionis powers are one of the main marks of identity of Dark Sun.

WotC will need psionic powers for future no-fantasy settings, for example Gamma World.

If Esper/Mystic/Psion class is not published by WotC then it will be by a 3PP.

Always there is a player who wants to be a different PC, something like who likes to wears clothing of certain urban tribe.

 

[Minigiant]

In D&D terms , psionics is a separate type of supernatural power. Is is similar to magiic except for 5 things

1. It's not tied to the Weave/Aether/Fade or the structure that determines magic rules
2. It;s not tied to the God(ess) of Magic. There can only be a possible separate God(ess) of Psionics to rule it.
3. Because of 1&3, Psionics isn't as rigidity attached to strict formulae and practitioners can alter them greatly on the fly
4. 99% of psionics have no verbal nor somatic component
5. Because of 3&4, psionics can deeper delve into mental mental as it can move and change at the "speed of thought"

Basically Psionics is looser fastermind magic that only a God of Psioncs or GOOs can define rules for.

 

[Maxperson]

Psionics is the internal power of the mind and will affecting self, other minds and perception to the extent that perceived reality can manifest externally.

Magic is the willful manipulation of external energies that permeate the dimensional matrix of reality

Both require a will full act to cause change and thus often overlap

This.

Whether you want psionics and magic to be different, or whether you want them both to be magic, how they function is different and the mechanics should differ to help represent what psionics is supposed to be.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I find the biggest stumbling block between "psionics" and "magic" is whether or not (general) you personally use "magic" as a synonym for "supernatural power" or not.

If you do... then "magic" is just the overarching default word for anything in the fantasy world that is "not beholden to physics" (from our real-world perspective of physics, not that anyone in-world and in-game necessarily might know what 'physics' as a concept actually is.) In this case... psionics is "magic" because because it does supernatural action just like all other magical classes and creatures do.

If you don't... and you do indeed see "magic" as the Weave/Aether thingy mentioned above as something specific that people tap into to accomplish supernatural feats, then psionics need not fall into it if you consider psionics internal power (of whatever sort you wish to define it as). But if you do fall in this direction... then you will need to possibly also figure out for yourself whether or not Ki and Sorcery do or don't fall into it either. 4E specifically said that the Monk's Ki and "psionics" were the same thing, but 5E has not stated that as of yet. And as far as Sorcery is concerned... it is also an "internal power" thing, but some would say it's an internal ability to manipulate the Weave/Aether, and not whatever internal power psionics is. Whether or not that differential makes sense to you? That's up to you to decide.

For me personally... I fall into the "magic is a synonym for supernatural" camp. Mainly because I don't like the idea that psionics and only psionics gets their own "thing", and every other class falls into "magic". To me, psionics isn't so important that they get to be the special snowflake, while Arcane, Divine, and Primal "magics" are all stuck under one roof. If Psionics gets to be its own thing, then Arcana, Divina, and Primala should all be their own things too.

(And on a similar note, this is also why I don't believe psionics should have their own mechanical system apart from spellcasting and spell slots... because if they deserve to have their own system, then the Divina and Primala classes should get their own individualized mechanics to separate them from arcane spellcasting as well.)

 

[Oofta]

I find the biggest stumbling block between "psionics" and "magic" is whether or not (general) you personally use "magic" as a synonym for "supernatural power" or not.

If you do... then "magic" is just the overarching default word for anything in the fantasy world that is "not beholden to physics" (from our real-world perspective of physics, not that anyone in-world and in-game necessarily might know what 'physics' as a concept actually is.) In this case... psionics is "magic" because because it does supernatural action just like all other magical classes and creatures do.

If you don't... and you do indeed see "magic" as the Weave/Aether thingy mentioned above as something specific that people tap into to accomplish supernatural feats, then psionics need not fall into it if you consider psionics internal power (of whatever sort you wish to define it as). But if you do fall in this direction... then you will need to possibly also figure out for yourself whether or not Ki and Sorcery do or don't fall into it either. 4E specifically said that the Monk's Ki and "psionics" were the same thing, but 5E has not stated that as of yet. And as far as Sorcery is concerned... it is also an "internal power" thing, but some would say it's an internal ability to manipulate the Weave/Aether, and not whatever internal power psionics is. Whether or not that differential makes sense to you? That's up to you to decide.

For me personally... I fall into the "magic is a synonym for supernatural" camp. Mainly because I don't like the idea that psionics and only psionics gets their own "thing", and every other class falls into "magic". To me, psionics isn't so important that they get to be the special snowflake, while Arcane, Divine, and Primal "magics" are all stuck under one roof. If Psionics gets to be its own thing, then Arcana, Divina, and Primala should all be their own things too.

(And on a similar note, this is also why I don't believe psionics should have their own mechanical system apart from spellcasting and spell slots... because if they deserve to have their own system, then the Divina and Primala classes should get their own individualized mechanics to separate them from arcane spellcasting as well.)

The basic concept of the weave is that raw magic permeates the universe and how wizards interface with that raw magic is labeled the weave in FR. Basically though, D&D worlds have an underlying source of power that does not (as far as we know ) exist in the real world. In my campaign, some schools call this raw magic aether and antimagic zones just block interaction with the aether. It's why things like ghosts, giants and dragons which all rely on the supernatural can still exist in antimagic zones. For them, as well as monks, the magic is an innate ability. Even in FR, monks and creatures that use psionics are still using the weave.

Spoiler: Sword Coast Adventurers Guide Explanation

Supernatural Powers and Psionics
The inborn magical abilities of certain creatures, the acquired supernatural powers of people such as monks, and psionic abilities are similar in that their users don’t manipulate the Weave in the customary way that spellcasters do. The mental state of the user is vitally important: monks and some psionics-users train long and hard to attain the right frame of mind, while creatures with supernatural powers have that mind-set in their nature. How these abilities are related to the Weave remains a matter of debate; many students of the arcane believe that the use of the so-called Unseen Art is an aspect of magical talent that can’t be directly studied or taught.

So in my campaign psionics would still have to rely on the aether to exist since, again as far as we know, there is no way for psionics to work in our world. There needs to be something special and different about fantastical realms. You could create entirely separate power sources I suppose but how magic works is left deliberately vague so that different campaigns can implement it differently.

Fundamentally though there's just not a lot of room in D&D for psionics. Magic users of all stripes stole "mind magic" and relabeled it "spells", sorcerers stole the "innate magic" aspect. There's little to no room from a mechanical aspect and from a story aspect it just varies too much.

The other problem is that it seems very few people really agree what psionics should be or how to differentiate it. If I wanted to have psionics in my campaign I'd just change the fluff for sorcerers, maybe change the primary ability to wisdom to reflect mental discipline. Focus less on physical damaging effects and more on enchantment, divination or spells like mage hand, animate objects and Bigby's hand that are more telekinesis based.

 

[CreamCloud0]

I find the biggest stumbling block between "psionics" and "magic" is whether or not (general) you personally use "magic" as a synonym for "supernatural power" or not.

If you do... then "magic" is just the overarching default word for anything in the fantasy world that is "not beholden to physics" (from our real-world perspective of physics, not that anyone in-world and in-game necessarily might know what 'physics' as a concept actually is.) In this case... psionics is "magic" because because it does supernatural action just like all other magical classes and creatures do.

If you don't... and you do indeed see "magic" as the Weave/Aether thingy mentioned above as something specific that people tap into to accomplish supernatural feats, then psionics need not fall into it if you consider psionics internal power (of whatever sort you wish to define it as). But if you do fall in this direction... then you will need to possibly also figure out for yourself whether or not Ki and Sorcery do or don't fall into it either. 4E specifically said that the Monk's Ki and "psionics" were the same thing, but 5E has not stated that as of yet. And as far as Sorcery is concerned... it is also an "internal power" thing, but some would say it's an internal ability to manipulate the Weave/Aether, and not whatever internal power psionics is. Whether or not that differential makes sense to you? That's up to you to decide.

For me personally... I fall into the "magic is a synonym for supernatural" camp. Mainly because I don't like the idea that psionics and only psionics gets their own "thing", and every other class falls into "magic". To me, psionics isn't so important that they get to be the special snowflake, while Arcane, Divine, and Primal "magics" are all stuck under one roof. If Psionics gets to be its own thing, then Arcana, Divina, and Primala should all be their own things too.

(And on a similar note, this is also why I don't believe psionics should have their own mechanical system apart from spellcasting and spell slots... because if they deserve to have their own system, then the Divina and Primala classes should get their own individualized mechanics to separate them from arcane spellcasting as well.)

personally i see it as the 'magic is the name for this specific force' and sorcerers are people with 'a natural internal connection to an external force.'

didn't arcane and divine magics used to be more seriously distinguished by their prepared and memorised casting, primal was kind of divine0.2 when it came about iirc.

it's not like there haven't been classes with unique mechanics before, previous sorcerers were originally a spontaneous arcane caster when that wasn't a thing and you had to prepare every one of your chosen spells in advance, warlock has it's own little thing going on with casting in 5e and there have obviously been psions with their own mechanics in older editions right?

just because we have one system that works well for most things doesn't mean to me that we shouldn't be allowed to have something different for things that want it.

 

[FrozenNorth]

are they the same thing?

Yes and no. The way D&D does magic is to shove everything into the “it’s magic!” box.

Sorcerer casting firebolt? Magic.
Cleric pleads with their god to intervene and god does so? Magic.
Fighter inscribes a rune into a sword that allows it to harm fiends? Magic.
Portal that allows travel to the Feywild? Magic.
Ranger can locate portals for planar travel? Magic.
Artificer uses Herbalism proficiency to create a poultice that permits the party to breathe underwater? Magic.
Barbarian has an aura that deals fire damage to everyone with 10’ of them? Probably Magic.
Paladin’s aura grants everyone within 10’ of them a bonus against fear? Probably Magic.
Psychic can read minds? Magic.

Since virtually everything is magical, I don’t find the question “is it magical?” to be a useful distinction. A better question is “what distinguishes psionics from the spells cast by wizards snd sorcerers?”.

I think there are as many answers to that second question as there are DMs.

One possible answer would be to remove enchantment snd illusion from the arcane power source (leaving them with conjuration, evocation, abjuration, transmutation, divination and necromancy) and making illusion/enchantment (plus a few other spells like telekinesis), the province of psionics.