What is the essence of D&D

[Garthanos]

1E predates the expectation of getting to level 20 which didn't actually show up until level 2E. Hell UA was required for several classes in 1E.

But yes if that is an issue for you its a perfectly valid criticism of 1E, that and OD&D were not designed for high level play more like 1-10. Square peg round hole.

AD&D definitely provided higher levels for Wizards at least with real advancement at becoming more extraordinary...

BECMI did move away form that but the adventures moved away from dungeon crawls as well exploration and politics and it had flatter math as well (level 20 fighter +13 to hit IIRC).

Might have been interesting (no I did not get to play that one AD&D seemed dominant though I did play a short non-adventure in the old Blue book game where I got to die on a save or die in the first encounter )

 

[Zardnaar]

AD&D definitely provided higher levels for Wizards at least with real advancement at becoming more extraordinary...

Might have been interesting (no I did not get to play that one AD&D seemed dominant though I did play a short non-adventure in the old Blue book game where I got to die on a save or die in the first encounter )

B/X has aged a lot better. Most of the OSR clones are B/X or OD&D not 1E.

There's more B/X, 2E and 4E in 5E than 1E.

 

[Campbell]

The best feature of B/X from my perspective is the much flatter bonus progression. The crazy rewards for high ability scores in AD&D often led to some creative rolling and made characters with lower ability scores feel impotent.

 

[Zardnaar]

The best feature of B/X from my perspective is the much flatter bonus progression. The crazy rewards for high ability scores in AD&D often led to some creative rolling and made characters with lower ability scores feel impotent.

Yep 1st D&D with unified ability scores.

Bounded accuracy conceptually comes from B/X. Note 5E lacks +5 weapons as well.

I like 1E it's not because of the mechanics.

5E looks like 3E, presented like 1E concept ually 2E, 4E, B/X. They dumped the 4E playstyle kept a lot of the mechanics.

If you wanted to clone 4E and fix it look at B/X aka simplify it and/or clean up the presentation.

 

[Garthanos]

Once again your pushing 5MWD. It's not really standard although I don't see the 5E 6 to 8 encounter expectation working that well either.

It happened but I only saw it when you were lucky enough to win the spell lotto
Spells being wildly useful and allowing a super climax like that Paladin my son played in 5e could have the same impact. OK arguably did have that impact.

Why not find a rest or use those rest magic items when your biggest guns run out of ammo??? how is this not Gygaxian appropriate strategy

4E to me seemed like an attempt to stretch level 1 to 10 over 30 levels. It was a bad idea when BECMI tried it was a bad idea when 4E did it.

No 4e level 1 is comparable to level 5 it means you have enemies less than you you can defeat nicely even at level 1 (those were minions)

In 5e termes the advancement is then stretched out levels 5 to 20 being 1 to 30 in 4e
and it actually works as a translation to other editions too kind of sort of.

I admit to liking and feel like 4e did its frist 20 better than epic... i give it excuses like no DMG was devoted to it but I think they needed to let the first 20 levels gell before putting out the Epic Players handbook.

Level 1 to 20 is a big thing of D&D now though. It's a sacred cow I wouldn't touch.

hmmm shrug not a biggy to me.

 

[Zardnaar]

It happened but I only saw it when you were lucky enough to win the spell lotto
Spells being wildly useful and allowing a super climax like that Paladin my son played in 5e could have the same impact.

No 4e level 1 is comparable to level 5 it means you have enemies less than you you can defeat nicely even at level 1 (those were minions)

In 5e termes the advancement is then stretched out levels 5 to 20 being 1 to 30 in 4e
and it actually works as a translation to other editions too kind of sort of.

I admit to liking and feel like 4e did its frist 20 better than epic... i give it excuses like no DMG was devoted to it but I think they needed to let the first 20 levels gell before putting out the Epic Players handbook.


hmmm shrug not a biggy to me.

I think conceptually ,B/X and 13th age level 10 and 14 are a better end point.

The essence of D&D level 1-20 though.

 

[Campbell]

It's funny. I actually discovered B/X through indie roleplaying games. Vincent Baker, the creator of Apocalypse World always talks about how well designed a game B/X was and how much he loves playing it, so I got but did not end up playing it for a couple years. I saw a video where John Harper, creator of Blades in Dark, raved over Stars Without Number, a space faring retro clone based on a combination of B/X and Traveler. We played a short game and ended up loving it, and then tried Moldvay and loved that too.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's funny. I actually discovered B/X through indie roleplaying games. Vincent Baker, the creator of Apocalypse World always talks about how well designed a game B/X was and how much he loves playing it, so I got but did not end up playing it for a couple years. I saw a video where John Harper, creator of Blades in Dark, raved over Stars Without Number, a space faring retro clone based on a combination of B/X and Traveler. We played a short game and ended up loving it, and then tried Moldvay and loved that too.

Yep it could be better but a few clone kinda fixed a few things like the thief and clerics not being able to cast at level 1.

That's what I meant it's aged better.

 

[Tony Vargas]

.
I don't like 4E point blank its mostly the class design and things like healing surges and its magic item rules.

That is my opinion.

You're absolutely entitled to that opinion.

That it's perfectly consistent with my supposition about the Primacy of Magic notwithstanding.

 

[Zardnaar]

You're absolutely entitled to that opinion.

That it's perfectly consistent with my supposition about the Primacy of Magic notwithstanding.

I think it's the scale of the primacy of magic.

Cure light wounds better than non magical healing big whoop.

Cleric being able to buff and beat down the fighter 24/7 problem.