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What makes a bard a bard?

Jonathan Moyer said:
I really like what I've heard so far about the Bard class regarding how they are individuals whose artistic talent has gained the favor of "otherworldly patrons." I really want to see who these patrons are. For whatever reason my image of the stereotypical Bard doesn't have a lot of spell casting ability, but having patrons bestowing magical gifts really seems to mesh well with my conceptions and I have no difficulty with the idea now.
While I am not sure what powers they will bestow or who they will be (I just have my wish of them being patrons who feed off emotion) I for some reason. Really, really visualize/conceptualize them to be similar to the Endless, from Neil Gaiman's Sandman. There is just something about Bards and patrons acting like/looking like the Endless that just clicks in my head.
 

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Jonathan Moyer said:
I really like what I've heard so far about the Bard class regarding how they are individuals whose artistic talent has gained the favor of "otherworldly patrons." I really want to see who these patrons are. For whatever reason my image of the stereotypical Bard doesn't have a lot of spell casting ability, but having patrons bestowing magical gifts really seems to mesh well with my conceptions and I have no difficulty with the idea now.
yuck. that must be because dnd's dabbler/swashbuckler bard had nothing to do with historical or mythical bards, whose knowledge and poetic talents were considered magical in themselves and didn't need the intervention of otherworldly patrons.

Fallen Seraph said:
While I am not sure what powers they will bestow or who they will be (I just have my wish of them being patrons who feed off emotion) I for some reason. Really, really visualize/conceptualize them to be similar to the Endless, from Neil Gaiman's Sandman. There is just something about Bards and patrons acting like/looking like the Endless that just clicks in my head.
so bards will all be working for moody cosmic emo/goths?
 

Seems to me that the "historical" bard just isn't a character meant to function in a small fighting squad, which is essentially what a party is. 4e, even more than 3e, defnitely focuses on every character being able to contribute roughly equivalently (which is not to say equally) in combat, and in order to get to that, you're going to have to do some tweaking to "guy who tells stories and sings songs for money". Makes a fine NPC, but to make him something that is as useful in combat as the guy throwing balls of fire or swinging a 20 pound sword, you're going to have to do *something*. Sure you can give him plenty of charming and information skills for out of combat, but in combat has always been a problem.

What 3e started, and what it *seems* 4e will continue is to give him magic and some "leadership" abilities (i.e. buffs, and now perhaps some tactical party maneuvering now that 4e has put that on the table).

Now "historical" might not be quite fair: there's no "historical" wizards or clerics (at least not ones that can do the kinds of things that DnD clerics and wizards do), but there are certainly prominent ones in fiction. But there's not really any fictional fantasy 3e bards (in the sense of singing in combat to hearten their comrades or throwing magic around kind of way). Well ok, those god awful furry-fantasy Spellsinger novels by Alan Dean Foster that I'm deeply ashamed to admit I read in high school when I didn't know any better.*

When I think of a fantasy bard, the only one that leaps right to mind is Marillion (I think that's the name) from the George R. R. Martin Song of Ice and Fire. He's on nobody's side but his own. Not much of a combatant, but damned good at ingratiating himself to the right people at the right time. That's a pretty cool character, but hard to pull off in the context of a party who's bread and butter is going into dungeons and killing things and taking their stuff.

*Alan Dean Foster: Hey, he's not Piers Anthony.**

**OK, OK, I read him too. Ugh. I need to shower now.
 



Chimera said:
Only if played poorly.

With Inspirational Boost and Song of the Heart (feat), my 6th level Bard boosts my party (self included) for +3 to hit/+3 damage. Hardly ineffectual.

Last night we had our second lesson in Delusions of Granduer convincing an opponent that he didn't need to run away, but could take us all on by himself! (Charge! Tpwapthwapthwap Thud.)

Outside combat, +16 Diplomacy, with rock solid Bluff, Sense Motive and Gather Information. Plus Fascinate and Suggestion.

Oh, and my Bard is a Orator. Talking, not singing.
Me too. Only, I used a MW Instrument that gave me another +1 to Hit/Damage. Uber.
 



What's been said that actually constitutes a class? Why can't any of this stuff just be flavor text for existing classes?

It's easy to imagine a rogue being a bard.
A wizard could just "use music" to cast his spells. Harp implement.
Not sure what the concrete difference is between a cantor and a cleric.
"Inspiration" is already there from cleric, paladin, and warlord.
Sonic attacks and the like could fit a fey pact warlock pretty handily.
A bladesinger type bard could use paladin abilities.

As far as the other stuff:
Skills are relatively separate from combat now.
Jack of all trades = multiclass feats.

I'm pretty much convinced you'll be able to play a bard out of the box with PHB I.

I'd much rather have the arcane leader be a summoner. Not that there can't be more than one...
 

Bards can be summed up with secondary skills or, at most, primary skills.

Anything else is just a lame iteration of a tired attempt to make a non-PC class a PC class.
 

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