What must one do to be "evil" alignment?

kigmatzomat said:
That's a mite harsh. No option for redemption? No salvation? Just "the heavens command retribution"?
Redemption is more than a word, only the guilty themselves can seek it, others can't do it for them. It has to be earned by performing acts of good and must outweigh your earlier evils. (If you burned villages and massacred women and children now you must protect them and do more good than you did evil.)

A paladin is the worldly sword of a LG diety, a paragon of honor and virtue. The very reason they exist is to be the hand of their god and bring his light wherever they travel. To crush evil wherever and however it may be found is the highest possible duty of a paladin. If they truly seek redemption then it's their burden to convince the paladin of that. And if they do the paladin shouldn't just say "okay" and go on their merry way, he should consider it a duty to assist and guide that individual to a state of righteousness.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Emirikol said:
Can a hermit be evil if he's never exposed to people? Must you "commit" an action to be "evil"?
According to the rules, absolutely. D&D does not care about your PC's inner life. Their actions are all that matter, period.
 

Let me chip in with what's --I think-- a fresh perspective...

Q: What must a character player do in order to 'be evil'?

A: Write 'evil' on their character sheet.

That's it. A declaration from the player that they'd like to run an evil character.

So long as the other participants are cool with it, and a few ground rules are established, it's then incumbent on the DM to provide that character with a steady stream of opportunities to 'be evil', that don't break the game. The same way a good PC expects the chance to both 'do good' and 'kill things and take their stuff'.

A DM's job is to help the players play the character --and game-- they want to.

Really, if a player wants to make an anithero, let them. Help them. So long as do it in a maaner that doesn't crowd out other peoples fun.
 
Last edited:

Personally I figure the mix in a population should be 80% neutral, 10% good, 10% evil roughly. Because the assumed morality of the game's alignment system would consider many of the piddling little things many people call good or evil in the real world as neutral. And as an alignment good or evil require a significant deviation from the very wide neutral category.

This meshes with how I do it. Good is Good, Evil is Evil, and everything in between is more or less Neutral.

EDIT: It's a Ping on the MY GOD HATES YOU radar. To a paladin something lighting up on the Detect Evil should be like getting no return on an incoming aircraft's IFF in a warzone. The Chorus of Infinite Righteousness just tapped him on the shoulder and said "The wrath of the heavens commands retribution."

I do believe (and think that the D&D Alignment rules back me up on it) that the conflict between Good and Evil mandates a much more nuanced response to Evil than "beat the crap out of it."

Good implies respect for life -- even evil life. As long as a creature lives, it can change. A truly Exalted person would give the evil a reason to change. The death of an evil creature is, ideally, only when the creature is (a) actively threatening another, or (b) "made of evil." If given the chance, a true conversion is infinitely preferable.
 

HeavenShallBurn said:
Redemption is more than a word, only the guilty themselves can seek it, others can't do it for them. It has to be earned by performing acts of good and must outweigh your earlier evils. (If you burned villages and massacred women and children now you must protect them and do more good than you did evil.)

Yeah, but that's awfully hard to do when a paladin is gutting you because the voice in his head demands divine retribution.
 


Mallus said:
Q: What must a character do in order to 'be evil'?

A: Write 'evil' on their character sheet.
If you had written, "Have their player write...", you would have won the thread.

As a consolation prize, however, you've won my undying love. :D
 


kigmatzomat said:
Yeah, but that's awfully hard to do when a paladin is gutting you because the voice in his head demands divine retribution.

HeavenShallBurn said:
If they truly seek redemption then it's their burden to convince the paladin of that. And if they do the paladin shouldn't just say "okay" and go on their merry way, he should consider it a duty to assist and guide that individual to a state of righteousness.

I should be probably be clearer but it doesn't necessarily mean you go straight to kill. If they're of a race widely considered "monstrous" sure kill away. If they're not then much more likely to grab them and make them confess their evils so that proper retribution may be carried out and if someone has earned the evil alignment the things they've done probably demand either death or something else very harsh as punishment for their wrongs.

Kamikaze Midget said:
Good implies respect for life -- even evil life. As long as a creature lives, it can change. A truly Exalted person would give the evil a reason to change. The death of an evil creature is, ideally, only when the creature is (a) actively threatening another, or (b) "made of evil." If given the chance, a true conversion is infinitely preferable.

Do you use the Book of Exalted Deeds vision of Good? If so I'll readily agree we differ on our definitions of Good and that won't change. I simply can't agree with the BoED version of Good just as I think the BoVD trivializes what is truly Evil. I have to question WHY would Good value the lives of Evil? If they truly want to redeem themselves then they should need to convince Good of it, and then Good should be vigilant to help them on the path. And ready with a sword if they fail.
 

Do you use the Book of Exalted Deeds vision of Good? If so I'll readily agree we differ on our definitions of Good and that won't change. I simply can't agree with the BoED version of Good just as I think the BoVD trivializes what is truly Evil. I have to question WHY would Good value the lives of Evil? If they truly want to redeem themselves then they should need to convince Good of it, and then Good should be vigilant to help them on the path. And ready with a sword if they fail.

I use the Dungeons & Dragons version of Good. Altruism, respect for life, concern for the dignity of sentient beings, personal sacrifices to help others, protecting innocent life. In D&D, being of Evil alignment doesn't make one non-sentient, non-living, or otherwise unworthy of the dignity and respect that is characteristic of a Good alignment. They value the lives of Evil beings because they believe such beings have the capacity for Good (the same way a devil may value the life of a paladin because a paladin has a capacity to fall and become a blackguard). They value the lives of Evil people because they value all life, and feel that all beings are worthy of dignity, even if they choose to use it wrong.

Dignity and respect won't mean you won't slay them if the need is there. It just means that you will not regard their mere existence as a need to slay them.

Evil people are still people...evil human beings are still human beings...and Good characters seem to have the view that simply making unfortunate choices doesn't invalidate the fact that you are a person, that you are a human being, that you can be otherwise. If there is the chance that you can be otherwise, a Good character wants you to be otherwise.

The sword is a weapon of necessity to a thoughtful Good character, not simply a tool. It has the power to unmake a person, to transform a human being into an inanimate object, it ends the chance for redemption and hurries you on to the judgment the universe has cosigned for you (for Evil characters, eternal punishment in the Abyss or Baator or Hades). While just, if there is any force in the world that will destroy your humanity and eradicate your sentience, it is the Lower Planes. Even the greatest Abyssal Lord lacks what even an evil necromancer-king has: the spark of sentience that allows them to reconsider their actions.

Redemption isn't something you apply for, to a Good character...it's something whose potential is inborn in your very nature. That's why life and sentience earns such respect and protection, that's why even an Evil life is worth trying to preserve. No one deserves the torments of the Lower Planes. And every sentient spirit has the chance to achieve paradise. It's a chance that everyone deserves, as often as they request it. The "cause" for Good characters is "everyone else."

That feeds into the self-sacrifice. Yes, a Good character wants to be a doormat. To be willing to die for your cause doesn't require much courage. Life is easy to spend. To be willing to be embarrassed, humiliated, hated, pitied, and to live with the messy burden of existence...that's true courage.

Now, these aren't *requirements* for Good. They're just the logical extreme of the philosophy. You can be Good and still suffer from pride, from wrath, from hundreds of sins of the body and mind. What makes you Good is that you struggle against them, not that you are totally free of them. Just as an Evil character may occasionally have pity on an underling, a Good character may trust his sword arm a bit too much. "Exalted" characters are the extremists, the ones who are almost entirely free of those hundreds of minor sins.
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top