D&D 5E What Races (classes) do you allow or disallow in your campaign?

For the campaign set in 900 AC you could probably have a player be part of the invading Thyatian army and play a Rakasta from Ochalea. The Traladarans either hate you because they know you are Thyatian or fear you because they think you are a were-creature.

I get your point, though. If a player says "I want to play a Tabaxi or else!" versus "I want to play something like a Tabaxi. What do you have?" the former will be harder to deal with than the latter.

A good DM will figure out why a player wants to play a certain character and what in particular the player finds appealing. A good player will engage with the world as the DM has presented it. My favorite campaign ever resulted from the above. The DM had one rule for those of us creating characters - don't make powerful PCs. The players bought into his vision and the setting (Harn) and we had a great time.
It's a two-way street, really. Ideally, the DM should have at least a basic idea of what sorts of characters the players want to play before planning the campaign. If you know somebody has their heart set on a tabaxi, maybe don't run the campaign in 900 AC in Karameikos (full disclosure: I have no idea what this is). Maybe pull one of your other ideas off the shelf. At the very least, have the conversation. Do the give-and-take. Figure out something everybody wants to do.
 

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Obryn

Hero
I'm all about collaboration. It seems to me that if the DM and the players are seeing eye to eye, this shouldn't be a problem. The DM needs to give a bit, and the players likewise.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Only to someone who is either too stubborn or small-minded to accept or too dumb to understand the criticism.

Otherwise "Elves suxxorsz!!!1!" is merely a random non-sequitur without any presented evidence. It remains merely a baseless opinion.

My criticism illustrates how elves fundamentally, if everything written about them in each edition is to be taken at face value, in fact do check off every single box on the "identifying a Mary Sue character" check list.

If you had never heard of Elves before and someone approached you.

"So my character is like this race of people who look just like humans except they all have super model/porn star bodies and otherwise the only distinguishing feature is pointed ears and sexy eyes. And she is totally the most beautiful girl in every room she is ever going to enter because this race is more beautiful than all humans. And she looks only 15, but she has actually been around for 100 years just like... totally hanging out in her races perfect Utopia as basically a princess because all of the girls of this race are all equal but all so like princesses because no one ever has to work, they can just study and do art and stuff. So she has more experience and knowledge to draw on than even the oldest member of the party. Also, she never has to sleep, so you can never catch her off guard or ambush her. Also, she inherently knows magic and all of her people know how to use the best single-handed melee weapon and best ranged weapon in the game because they totally practice at that being the idealistic, peaceful civilization they are. Also, she can see and hear better than everyone else, especially at night. And her people are respected and idealized throughout the whole land and recognized as the ultimate good people. Especially magical creatures love them and will always listen and regular peasants will always act like she is a celebrity. Oh, and she can totally have babies with humans if she wants unlike every other race in the world. And her people have exclusive access to the best magic and the best metal and the best craftsmanship in all of the world, everyone aspires to have something made by her people as it is always the best. Also, there is like a subgroup of this race perfectly suited for each and every class in the game and they have slightly different skin tones. Naturally I am the subrace ideal for my class."

If you had never heard of this race before, you would decry this being called a "race" immediately. It utterly fails in every regard that would make a race well... a RACE. Its just a flat-out wishlist for someone who wants a super human character. There is no wonder it is the second most often chosen race in the game.

The fact that this gets a pass simply because "It was in Lord of the Rings" is the worst possible "filter" to use. I would suspect anyone who plays and elf and has actually put any thought into what being an elf by D&D standards means would be far more of a disruption than someone who wants to play an Orc or a Shifter or a Warforged or a Goliath. At least all of those imply an actual culture that could feasibly exist in the world as presented and come with significant drawbacks and flaws in exchange for whatever superior abilities they might confer. The Elf, as presented over the editions of D&D, utterly fails in that regard. Not because "Elves suxxorz!!!1!" but because when you actually compare what the race confers aside from the actual numerated mechanics, it is a Mary Sue race and it utterly fails the test of what would make a good race.

Could you take the basic idea of Elves and do something better with it?
Sure. To start with, they aren't necessarily "beautiful" but rather have features that could or could not be taken as attractive.
They don't have exclusive access to the best metal, because they are forest dwelling people who don't actually do any mining.
The majority of the elves live as peasants in their society, maybe it is just economically equitable enough that they don't necessarily feel like peasants, but are still expected to spend most of their time working for the benefit of their society in actual tangible ways (i.e. building, gathering food, etc.) or, alternatively, they use some sort of slave labor system (possibly of seemingly non-sentient magical creatures) to see their needs are fulfilled.
They are not naturally morally and ethically superior to humans in all ways, but rather they have particular vices and sins and faults that are quite common among their people and this makes them distrusted and disliked.
They don't just live for hundreds of years, never sleeping, always gathering knowledge and experience. Instead, perhaps they can put off sleeping for weeks, even months, and then have to catch up with that sleep all in one long go. Maybe their spirits are even carried to another realm and interact collectively with other elven spirits. And while asleep they do not need to eat or drink nor do they age or change. Sleeping could even be addictive and they might sleep for decades if another doesn't wake them, only to wake up lost and confused and with only the vaguest recollection of what their lives were like before that. Thus, they may well live for centuries, but only a portion of that time is spent active and they tend to lose their memories and experiences and even sometimes much of their own identity.

Sometime like that could still be recognizable "Elf" and actually be flawed enough to make up for its benefits and be an actually interesting element to have in the world.


Elves don't necessarily HAVE to suck, but as presented in D&D with their massive list of benefits that aren't on the actual character sheet and their lack of a properly conceptualized culture, they are perhaps the single most disruptive race a player could play despite the fact that they are a "standard race."




They had fewer limits on classes and a higher cap on every class they could be than literally every other race but human and half-elf. In other words, when comparing the non-human races, they had the LEAST restrictions. Since we are talking about non-human races here, that just demonstrates one more additional benefit elves were given over all others.

I don't recall any racial preference table, but I do recall how one could flip through the monster manual and nearly every "good" monster would specify it preferred elves to all other peoples or, in the very least, it wouldn't deal with anyone but an elf or possibly a human.

So the Raise from Dead thing is the only legitimate drawback. Granted, it could be a pretty significant one given how often characters died in those editions.

I'm not a big fan of elves, but your screed(s) seem to be cherry picking the worst and totally ignoring anything that cuts against elves (and in 5e, they're okay but not super). I get disliking elves, but I just don't have your issues even playing with book elves, in any edition except 2e with the Greatest Handbook of Elven Cheese. And if were in 2e with the Elven Handbook on the table, I'd likely agree with most (not all) of your points. As it is, we aren't, and your hate on for elves really does come across as a wordier version of 'elves suck, mmkay?'
 

killer_rabbit13

First Post
For me, it depends on the type of campaign I'm doing. I am currently planning a no PHB races game. I'll be using many of the homebrew races from Middle Finger of Vecna as well as others I've found here & other forum
 

Celebrim

Legend
Just to refresh your memory:

- in older versions of D&D elves have limits on what classes they could be
- in older versions of D&D elves have limits on what levels they could reach
- in older versions of D&D there was a racial preference table, and not every race liked elves!
- in older versions of D&D elves could not be raised from the dead by 'normal' means

Happy to help :)

As a practical matter, elves have generally been a terrible PC race. When first introduced their level caps were very strict. As a practical matter, they'd cap out as 5th level fighters/9th level M-Us. The XP required to hit that cap would put them well behind any single class human character, and if you single classed them in anything but thief, they'd become irrelevant quickly and they are pretty much always inferior to some other choice for single classed characters. The have a penalty in the most important attribute in the game - Constitution. As a practical matter, to play a multi-classed elf, you needed to roll a 16 or better Int, a 15 or better Dex, and a 17 or better Con (before racial adjustment) - good luck with that even with a 4d6 drop 1. While they have a balanced array of bonuses applicable to different areas of the game, none of them are really nice except the high immunity to charm spells. Any munchkin would be attracted to the idea of elves rather than the reality of them. Yes, they did begin introducing munchkin elf subraces later as elf fans rebelled against having weak and unimpressive elves, and Drow are just a DM pet, but elves themselves in D&D are small, short, and really not that impressive.

3e elves are also rather weak, perhaps one of the least impressive PC races. I beefed up the elf in my homebrew to make it slightly better than the 3e version, and it's still one of the least played races.

Dwarves are typically much stronger choices for a character than elves. They do better single classed, and fighter/thief is generally more practical than fighter/M-U or fighter/thief/M-U. They have a constitution bonus, and their charisma penalty doesn't apply to other dwarves (so you can have dwarven henchmen for your dwarf, and you basically aren't losing a thing). Also, 19 Dex is 'meh' and not really much better than 18 Dex. But 19 Con is just godly, and if you can get 19 Con in 1e AD&D, your character is set (19 Con fighter averages ~11 hit points per level). Plus, the saving throw bonuses in 1e for a dwarf character are just insanely good, potentially letting you start a first level character with saving throws as good or better than most 10th level characters.

But the uber best at everything race of D&D has always been humans. Even in 3e, when there was a mechanically niche optimizable race for any build, humans were usually a valid second or third choice.

I think someone is basically ranting against a munchkin idea of elves that largely exists only in parody are satire, and has little bearing on elves as they appear at most people's tables.
 

Greg K

Legend
Well, after thinking on this some, I believe that what The_Gunslinger658 is saying is that they use race restrictions as a kind of filtering mechanism for potential players.

They believe that disruptive players are more likely to choose non-standard races, so by restricting the game to standard races (human, halfling, elf, dwarf, etc) they filter out a lot of disruptive players right away.

For myself, restricting races has two functions
1) it helps to inform players ahead of time about that setting I am going to run (as do class restrictions, house rules, and setting notes); and
2) it helps to filter out players with dissimilar tastes in both fantasy and playstyle.
 

hawkeyefan

Legend
Does anyone have some examples from home games of what they think are reasonable class or race restrictions based on the setting they wanted to run?

I'm not saying that I've never had such reatrictions myself, just that, in retrospect, I think I overestimated the impact a class orrace may have.

To use a published setting as an example, I don't think Dark Sun would honestly lose any flavor at all if Gnomes were allowed as a PC race.

Does anyone have a concrete example from their home game that might illustrate such a need?
 

The_Gunslinger658

First Post
I think setting like Dark Sun or Eberron would be perfect for the more esoteric races such as Dragonborn or Tieflings, even Chaotic stupid er I mean neutral would work well.

Settings like Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms I personally do not think would be ok for such races, but thats just me.

Does anyone have some examples from home games of what they think are reasonable class or race restrictions based on the setting they wanted to run?

I'm not saying that I've never had such reatrictions myself, just that, in retrospect, I think I overestimated the impact a class orrace may have.

To use a published setting as an example, I don't think Dark Sun would honestly lose any flavor at all if Gnomes were allowed as a PC race.

Does anyone have a concrete example from their home game that might illustrate such a need?
 

Coroc

Hero
Does anyone have some examples from home games of what they think are reasonable class or race restrictions based on the setting they wanted to run?

I'm not saying that I've never had such reatrictions myself, just that, in retrospect, I think I overestimated the impact a class orrace may have.

To use a published setting as an example, I don't think Dark Sun would honestly lose any flavor at all if Gnomes were allowed as a PC race.

Does anyone have a concrete example from their home game that might illustrate such a need?

In my 5E Greyhawk campaign I do allow humans, half-orcs , half-elves, Tieflings (Half-devils no half-demons) (they need to be lawful neutral or lawful good), gnomes (half- humans :) )

Also classes are restricted, Several priesthoods, most for humans, half elves get elonnah, gnomes get ulaa, Halforcs get Kord or Hextor. No Moon druids only land druids. Only Halfelves can be EK only Gnomes specialised illusionists only humans Pala and only LG and only Heironeus. Arcane Trickster only half elf and gnome. No Sorcerer Barbarian or monk.

It is a whole table of combinations possible these are just some, and partly the reason is the setting which I did put technologically into a 30 years war period just w/o gunpowder. Barbarians would not be fitting. Elves and dwarfes are few and pretty isolated.
Greyhawk did not have sorcs in 2e, monks I would have allowed if somehow "westernised"

The actual party consists of gnome illusionist human dex battlemaster with high charisma for Rping, human Pala, half elf swashbuckler (SCAG subclass of rogue). Most of my players prefer humans or races quite similar to humans because they are easyer to rp.

27 Point buy, 1 feat free at the start human only variant (so they get 2 feat at the start). XP are by kills and some quest boons and if someone does not appear he lags behind. Which is absolutely no problem 5 E easily allows for 1-2 levels difference.

I also use silver based prices and the party can literally buy everything nonmagic, but also healing pots and scrolls with every spell in the books no limits, it just costs :) 1 gold = 20 silver = 240 copper

There is no chainmail but full plate is AC19 and if someone uses a shield it will be a buckler. no TWF except Rapier main gauge (+1 AC 1w4) But you can buy a lantern shield, a chronometer, a sextant, a scrying glass etc.

You can buy Horses carts ships and war machines :p

I would have implemented guns cannons and gunpowder but one of my players objected, so I replaced these with crossbows of any size and war machines.

Hope that helps
 

Arilyn

Hero
Does anyone have some examples from home games of what they think are reasonable class or race restrictions based on the setting they wanted to run?

I'm not saying that I've never had such reatrictions myself, just that, in retrospect, I think I overestimated the impact a class orrace may have.

To use a published setting as an example, I don't think Dark Sun would honestly lose any flavor at all if Gnomes were allowed as a PC race.

Does anyone have a concrete example from their home game that might illustrate such a need?

Most of the time I have no restrictions. Did a "weird"west setting once with PF, with humans only, and restricted classes. Sorcerers were allowed, but no wizards, for example. Am thinking about an Elizabethan setting where there would also be restrictions. For more standard DnD campaigns, it's pretty much anything goes.
 

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